Unofficial - CEL/SL/Idle Issue List for FR-S/BRZ Owners

[Eurasianman]

This was posted on another site.

Posted by: BRZSTI On: 10-12-2012 11:40 PM

The cricket sound is not damaging to the engine, it's just the spool valve inside the high pressure fuel pump. The tsb replaces the fuel pump itself, but I'm not sure the what modification is made to the new pump to make it quieter.

OFFICIAL REFLASH CEL UPDATE

On Wednesday I had are district service manager come to our dealership so I could do a REFLASH on a brz that has a CEL for the valve timing, as I have talked about previously. I drilled him with questions lol. This is only the SECOND brz REFLASH to be done in Canada this far. The dealerships in canada have no access to the REFLASH files, because it's still in it's testing stage and he carried the file on a USB stick in which I was instructed not to copy the file to our diagnostic laptop. It's all still hush hush. Apparently this file has the ability to fry an ecm. The preliminary success rate is like 90% of ecms take the reprogram just fine, but they still don't know why the other 10% fail. We had a back up ecm here just in case of a failure. Also, this problem is being handled 100% by Toyota, no subaru involvement whatsoever! Subaru is at the whim of toyota figuring this out. I was also told this is being kept so secret because only subaru diagnostic equipment can do this R EFLASH and the Toyota equipment hasn't figured out how to make it work with there's. Hence the delay delay delay. The reflash expands the parameters of time for a oil control valve to move within the cam gear(s). This valve is sticky/slow moving and your going to hate what causes this but my DSM says its due strictly to not breaking these engines in hard enough, but is still somewhat under investigation. The 4000 rpm limit i think is bs anyways, im a tech and i set my limit to be like 6200 rpm and i have not had a problem. That's how a boxer engine should be broken in. This isnt any offence but this cel brz is driven by an older guy and when i asked, he followed the 4000 rpm rule in an AT of all things meaning this car never seen any rpm. the new diagnostic procedure up to date is:

1. Reflash ecm in vehicle, success means it's good, but CEL or fryed means step 2

2. Replace ecm and reflash again. Success means it's good, but CEL still on step 3

3. Replace all 4 cam sprockets.

Now you can see why this has been such a media and information gong show. Sprockets being replaced first then ecms, Toyota running the show and they can't even use there own equipment. Bulletins being put out then taken down. Here's where the confusion lies. It took me one on one with Subaru upper management just to get this much information. I personally believe the reflash only hides the cam sprocket not operating to peak performance and should have cam sprockets replaced regardless. But you didn't hear that from me, that's just one technicians opinion :P lol

Thanks for reading! I will have some other info regarding this problem as well as other concerns up soon.

Sent from my SGH-I717D using AutoGuide.Com Free App

[STEVEOSTI]

This sounds like some quality info... Scary

Originally Posted by Eurasianman

This was posted on another site.

Posted by: BRZSTI On: 10-12-2012 11:40 PM

The cricket sound is not damaging to the engine, it's just the spool valve inside the high pressure fuel pump. The tsb replaces the fuel pump itself, but I'm not sure the what modification is made to the new pump to make it quieter.

OFFICIAL REFLASH CEL UPDATE

On Wednesday I had are district service manager come to our dealership so I could do a REFLASH on a brz that has a CEL for the valve timing, as I have talked about previously. I drilled him with questions lol. This is only the SECOND brz REFLASH to be done in Canada this far. The dealerships in canada have no access to the REFLASH files, because it's still in it's testing stage and he carried the file on a USB stick in which I was instructed not to copy the file to our diagnostic laptop. It's all still hush hush. Apparently this file has the ability to fry an ecm. The preliminary success rate is like 90% of ecms take the reprogram just fine, but they still don't know why the other 10% fail. We had a back up ecm here just in case of a failure. Also, this problem is being handled 100% by Toyota, no subaru involvement whatsoever! Subaru is at the whim of toyota figuring this out. I was also told this is being kept so secret because only subaru diagnostic equipment can do this R EFLASH and the Toyota equipment hasn't figured out how to make it work with there's. Hence the delay delay delay. The reflash expands the parameters of time for a oil control valve to move within the cam gear(s). This valve is sticky/slow moving and your going to hate what causes this but my DSM says its due strictly to not breaking these engines in hard enough, but is still somewhat under investigation. The 4000 rpm limit i think is bs anyways, im a tech and i set my limit to be like 6200 rpm and i have not had a problem. That's how a boxer engine should be broken in. This isnt any offence but this cel brz is driven by an older guy and when i asked, he followed the 4000 rpm rule in an AT of all things meaning this car never seen any rpm. the new diagnostic procedure up to date is:

1. Reflash ecm in vehicle, success means it's good, but CEL or fryed means step 2

2. Replace ecm and reflash again. Success means it's good, but CEL still on step 3

3. Replace all 4 cam sprockets.

Now you can see why this has been such a media and information gong show. Sprockets being replaced first then ecms, Toyota running the show and they can't even use there own equipment. Bulletins being put out then taken down. Here's where the confusion lies. It took me one on one with Subaru upper management just to get this much information. I personally believe the reflash only hides the cam sprocket not operating to peak performance and should have cam sprockets replaced regardless. But you didn't hear that from me, that's just one technicians opinion :P lol

Thanks for reading! I will have some other info regarding this problem as well as other concerns up soon.

[Rob_g]

Originally Posted by STEVEOSTI

This sounds like some quality info... Scary

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to determine there is more going on here than just ECU programming issues. What ticks me off is that the new programming is going to maybe reduce the chance of a CEL or stall for some, but in reality it doesn't actually fix anything. I can obviously tell there's still something wrong with my FR-S, but now without a CEL or codes being thrown the dealership is going to say 'it's normal'.

Rob

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by Rob_g

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to determine there is more going on here than just ECU programming issues. What ticks me off is that the new programming is going to maybe reduce the chance of a CEL or stall for some, but in reality it doesn't actually fix anything. I can obviously tell there's still something wrong with my FR-S, but now without a CEL or codes being thrown the dealership is going to say 'it's normal'.

Rob

Maybe that's not entirely a bad thing. Reading BRZSTI's post I am intrigued about the possibility that is a problem with some of these parts "not being broken-in hard enought". So what's a problem now would cease to be a problem after the Cam Gear parts are allowed to ware in more.

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by Eurasianman

This was posted on another site.

*Finally* some information that makes some real sense. Thank you Eurasianman for posting this!!!!!!

BRZSTI says he'll be posting more info soon. Link to the other site please?

[OrbitalEllipses]

Interesting. I had no problem revving my engine out during break in, but only after a few miles to let the oil warm up. I did drive it ~60 miles/day on the highway, not varying RPMs though... No CEL/SL, but I do I have the funky idle drop every now and again.

Wonder what they consider a hard break in.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by Eurasianman

This was posted on another site.

"The reflash expands the parameters of time for a oil control valve to move within the cam gear(s). This valve is sticky/slow moving and your going to hate what causes this but my DSM says its due strictly to not breaking these engines in hard enough, but is still somewhat under investigation. The 4000 rpm limit i think is bs anyways, im a tech and i set my limit to be like 6200 rpm and i have not had a problem. That's how a boxer engine should be broken in. This isnt any offence but this cel brz is driven by an older guy and when i asked, he followed the 4000 rpm rule in an AT of all things meaning this car never seen any rpm."


I, for one, would be grateful if someone could explain-clarify how break-in would affect the valve in question. I am not at odds with this statement. I am just a little vague about how that works.

Thanks.

[res]

Also, not sure how this could possibly be related to the break-in method/style. There are several cars (at least that we know of on this forum) that have had the issue with less than 10 miles on the odometer.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by einzlr

*Finally* some information that makes some real sense. Thank you Eurasianman for posting this!!!!!!

BRZSTI says he'll be posting more info soon. Link to the other site please?

Here's the link to the other forum. If its not shortened, this forum will automatically break it

http://goo.gl/KPRFe

[Eurasianman]

Originally Posted by res

Also, not sure how this could possibly be related to the break-in method/style. There are several cars (at least that we know of on this forum) that have had the issue with less than 10 miles on the odometer.

Guess the guys at the unloading docks missed a few vehicles in regards to revving the crap out of them before loading them up onto the trucks

[ap5512]

Okay - so I need some help figuring this out. I am a bit confused with all the SL & CEL people have been getting. Here's my personal account of the idling issue and CELs:

1) Got the BRZ in July and maybe a month later started to experience the idling issue but nothing major.

2) Make an appointment for my first complementary oil change at my dealership last Wednesday for Saturday, October 13th.

3.) Come friday, I am driving to the mall and i stop at a light...car shakes a bit and next thing I see is the SL & CEL. Parked the car and turn it off/on a few times. The SL went away but the CEL stayed.

4.) Come Saturday -- i went into Subaru dealership and explained the situation and that I was there to get the first oil change, look into the TSB, and the more recent CEL issue looked into.

So once the service was finally done I asked if they had looked into the CEL issue and he said the TSB will take care of that and that he ordered the parts (although backorder) and the car is fine to drive. When leaving the dealership i noticed that the CEL was gone (most likely they cleared it). I was stupid not to get the code but I;ll call them up and see what the exact code was.

Now, the confusion I have is...is the TSB for Subaru which replaces the HPFP going to fix the CEL/SL issue? I've read horror stories about CAM sprockets being replaced and other major mechanical repairs being done. I almost feel like they cleared the CEL so I won't find out the true issue and they are going to do the TSB which I think only fixes the chirping noise OR they aren't that knowledgeable about the issues facing our cars. Am I missing something here and what do you guys think I should do??? Hopefully you guys can help me clear up some of this confusion..thanks.

[AsianStyle]

Originally Posted by Eurasianman

Guess the guys at the unloading docks missed a few vehicles in regards to revving the crap out of them before loading them up onto the trucks

Hasn't there been people in this thread who stated they decided to break in the engine hard and still ran into the cel issue?

[Genomaxter]

I guess we need to do a survey on people with the cel to tell how they broke the car in and how. I did a hard break in but I don't have the cel, so that isn't going to disprove anything.

[wotter]

Well, I was hoping not to post in this thread, but you can add me to the list.

142. wotter - GT86, took delivery of it on 31/08, 1830 KM as of today (don't have the VIN nr by hand)

This morning I experienced a couple of rpm drops. Normally, the engine idles around 650 rpm, today it dropped to 550-500 a couple of times, and then returned to normal.
This has happened two times in 1700KM, but this time, is was more pronounced.
When I went home after work, I was at a red light. Suddenly, the same thing happened again and CEL/SL light immediately came on. I took it straight to the dealer (was only 8 KM away). Car was in limp mode when the lights were on (almost no power above 3000 rpm, slow acceleration).

Strange this is: dealer isn't aware of this issue (launch date of the car was 1 Oct, I got mine on 31 Aug, so yeah I'm of the first people here). He said one of the democars from another dealer had this issue as well. I told him this is a known problem with the car (ECU is the culprit?), and that it is all over GT86 fora. They will update me tomorrow about the car. I REALLY don't have a good feeling about it...
I was just enjoying this car/engine, now that the break in periode was over

Temporary car: Corolla AT (loool - getting another one tomorrow).
Will update regularly (hopefully tomorrow as well).

*edit: I just followed the manual for the break in period: first 1600 KM, shifting below 4500 rpm