Will this be a good decade for car enthusiasts? (huge list of cars)

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by TuxedoCartman

Not to mention we're coming to the end of manual transmissions as we've known them. Modern automatic slushboxes are just as fast (if not faster) than manual transmissions, and are now getting better fuel economy. And for the die-hard performance enthusiasts (the last holdout of support for manuals in America), double-clutch flappy-paddle gearboxes are faster still, and getting cheaper and more common all the time.

Mark my words: by the 2020 model year, there won't be but maybe one or two cars still in production with a third pedal, and even those probably wont be on sale in America.

Enter the counterculture rebels (holdouts?)

Save the Manuals!

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by einzlr

Enter the counterculture rebels (holdouts?)

Save the Manuals!

Only way to vote is with your money on a new car... Porsche made a ballsy move with their new manual Carrera, I just hope most buyers are actually choosing that option!

Anyways, regarding the fuel efficiency thing, they really need to start specifying shift schedules for the EPA tests, and writing instructions into owner's manuals to dispel some of the "lugging" myths.

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Only way to vote is with your money on a new car... Porsche made a ballsy move with their new manual Carrera, I just hope most buyers are actually choosing that option!

Anyways, regarding the fuel efficiency thing, they really need to start specifying shift schedules for the EPA tests, and writing instructions into owner's manuals to dispel some of the "lugging" myths.

I have never owned a car that didn't have three pedals. ...and firmly plan on keeping it that way

[RaceR]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Only way to vote is with your money on a new car... Porsche made a ballsy move with their new manual Carrera, I just hope most buyers are actually choosing that option!

+1
Yeah.. As a manufacturer of great sports cars it is nice to see Porsche offer a manual. But if sales on the manual will suck. Then it might be bye bye manual for the next gen..

Originally Posted by TuxedoCartman

Mark my words: by the 2020 model year, there won't be but maybe one or two cars still in production with a third pedal, and even those probably wont be on sale in America.

Nah.. There will be many cars with a third pedal still being sold.

Why I think it wont be that bad in 2020.

1 st. Not all countries are like the US. Many places there are a MUCH higher number of manual drivers... About 2 out 3 cars used cars in Norway have manual transmission.

2. When looking at new cars with small engine displacement the savings between manual and automatic are close to nothing. In several cases the manual can have lower emissions. (BMW 116 and BRZ low spec are two examples I know of)

3. If automatic is more expensive than many people will still buy manual.
If people buy manuals, car manufacturers will offer...

4. As long as governments does not have extreme CO2 taxes, and automatic transmissions are not much better in terms of emissions. Manuals will live for a long time when combined with combustion engines..

5. Exampe why manuals will live. In Norway the GT86 with manual gets about 5000 USD more in taxes due to CO2 emissions. (Dealerships sell them for the same price)
The typical car is still sold with a manual.

But yeah. Manuals will be on their way out, slowly but surely.. When looking at performance cars it will probably happen faster than we like. But people vote with their money...

[Pforwell]

One other point to add about the Manual transmissions. I also dislike the idea of losing that option. However, Honda has released that CRZ Hybrid here in NA and it's got a 6 speed.

So there is hope still. I'm very confident that with all the engineering strenght of these companies, they can synthesize (I know that's a taboo word in the automotive culture) a Manual transmission on an Electric vehicle. If the need is there.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Pforwell

One other point to add about the Manual transmissions. I also dislike the idea of losing that option. However, Honda has released that CRZ Hybrid here in NA and it's got a 6 speed.

So there is hope still. I'm very confident that with all the engineering strenght of these companies, they can synthesize (I know that's a taboo word in the automotive culture) a Manual transmission on an Electric vehicle. If the need is there.

Full electric vehicles no, the motors are too torquey (chews up gears) and their efficiency is not very speed dependent, the most speeds you will "need" is 2.

The best we can hope for is a CRZ like drivetrain with a little more excitement from the engine. Dunno about other people, but I'd be down for that.

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Full electric vehicles no, the motors are too torquey (chews up gears) and their efficiency is not very speed dependent, the most speeds you will "need" is 2.

The best we can hope for is a CRZ like drivetrain with a little more excitement from the engine. Dunno about other people, but I'd be down for that.

+1 x 2

When Tesla was developing the Roadster, they did actually intially give it a transmission with two forward gears. They had loads of problems with it though, and finally they figured out that it's superfluous in the first place.

Funny you should mention the CRZ - just today I struck up a conversation with the owner of one when I saw him in the parking lot at work. He is very much in love with his car and seems to feel that it is a marvelous successor to the CRX, which he also owned back in the day. It was great to talk to someone who's so enthusiastic about their car, but I was pretty sure that the reason he feels like that is that he hasn't driven very many modern cars and isn't really aware that more excitement can be had with other choices.

[TuxedoCartman]

Originally Posted by einzlr

Funny you should mention the CRZ - just today I struck up a conversation with the owner of one when I saw him in the parking lot at work. He is very much in love with his car and seems to feel that it is a marvelous successor to the CRX, which he also owned back in the day. It was great to talk to someone who's so enthusiastic about their car, but I was pretty sure that the reason he feels like that is that he hasn't driven very many modern cars and isn't really aware that more excitement can be had with other choices.

Funny you should mention the bold part above: I feel the same way about most of the FR-S/ BRZ owners on this forum. It's a great car, and I like it and all, but when I hear people going on and on about "how great the driver feedback is" or "how there's an endless amount of grip with these cars", I have to wonder just what else they've driven. But maybe that could also be because I had my driver's license before most of these kids were born... so could you define "modern" cars?

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by TuxedoCartman

Funny you should mention the bold part above: I feel the same way about most of the FR-S/ BRZ owners on this forum. It's a great car, and I like it and all, but when I hear people going on and on about "how great the driver feedback is" or "how there's an endless amount of grip with these cars", I have to wonder just what else they've driven. But maybe that could also be because I had my driver's license before most of these kids were born... so could you define "modern" cars?

ROFL I've been secretly thinking the same thing about the endearing comments from the young set in this forum. I delight in their youthful exuberance and I remember how important it was at that age to make sure everyone around you knows you're an expert. And I'm a little envious that they already have such nice cars - when I was that age my ride had two wheels and pedals

So what's a "modern" car? Ok, I admit you kinda got me lol. In the context of my conversation with the gentleman with the CRZ it probably means 1990's and later

[RaceR]

Car types I would love to see. Cars I can not se represented from any manufacturer today

RWD:
-Budget MR (Toyota MR2, about 150hp and very light. Targa or Coupe style. MX-5 competitor)
-Affordable light FR Turbo (Direct competitor to the GT86/BRZ. Lighter and sportier than Genesis. Nissan Silvia??)
-»Budget» high performance FR (Supra)
-Practical affordable sportscar with 2 doors, 4 seats (Hatchback style like 3-door 1-series, but more sporty and still with usable back seats, LSD, cheap/affordable. Honda, your time to shine??)
-Practical affordable sportscar with 4 doors (Sedan like the Civic Si, but with RWD! Or kinda like lika RX-8. More sporty than a BMW 3-series, with LSD, cheap/affordable. Mazda with I4 Skyactiv engine/technology??)

AWD:
-Affordable sportscar with 4wd, front engine, and a "loose back end", 2 seats, coupe or targa with good looks. 2L Turbo, 200HP and 300HP model (Ford RS200 successor? Mitsubishi??)
«Budget» hypercar! 2 seats, Mid mounted engine, 4wd, 350++hp, supercar looks, light.

yeah I know.. If all those cars would pop up in this decade all manufacturers would loose. But there could be a market for several of those cars..

[TuxedoCartman]

Originally Posted by einzlr

So what's a "modern" car? Ok, I admit you kinda got me lol. In the context of my conversation with the gentleman with the CRZ it probably means 1990's and later

Okay, awesome! I don't feel quite so old now! LOL...

But it's still weird to me: there are kids born AFTER they stopped selling the RX-7 in America who have their driver's licenses now! <err... insert emoticon with a walker and pooping their Depends diapers here>

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by TuxedoCartman

Okay, awesome! I don't feel quite so old now! LOL...

But it's still weird to me: there are kids born AFTER they stopped selling the RX-7 in America who have their driver's licenses now! <err... insert emoticon with a walker and pooping their Depends diapers here>

I just tell 'em hey, it took me a LONG TIME to get this old

CRZ man was, I'm guessing, in his 60's and not in particularly good health, but he was absolutely young at heart

[wbradley]

I'll tell ya something, I'm 48 and I love the playfulness of the twins. However, as a past long time Honda/Acura customer, I can feel there would be some attraction to the CRZ. It is cool and high tech and the body is a natural evolution of the CRX. The interior is well put together and unique also.

However, having had a taste of the performance in my FR-S I now couldn't be content with a CRZ.

So, that kinda reinforces the theory that if you are apeshit over the CRZ you probably haven't gotten used to higher performance.


I guess the same could be said for the twins in relation to a Cayman...which I have never driven. Good thing, I dont need to mortgage the house for a more expensive ride.

Being quite a bit older than most on this forum is fine with me, we aren't here to discuss raising our kids or retirement savings after all...we all all here to share a mutual passion.

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by wbradley

I'll tell ya something, I'm 48 and I love the playfulness of the twins. However, as a past long time Honda/Acura customer, I can feel there would be some attraction to the CRZ. It is cool and high tech and the body is a natural evolution of the CRX. The interior is well put together and unique also.

However, having had a taste of the performance in my FR-S I now couldn't be content with a CRZ.

So, that kinda reinforces the theory that if you are apeshit over the CRZ you probably haven't gotten used to higher performance.


I guess the same could be said for the twins in relation to a Cayman...which I have never driven. Good thing, I dont need to mortgage the house for a more expensive ride.

I 'spect so, although the twins did come within a hair's breadth of the Cayman in a recent comparo. In fact they almost apologized for that, lamenting that they weren't allowed to call it a tie.

Originally Posted by wbradley

Being quite a bit older than most on this forum is fine with me, we aren't here to discuss raising our kids or retirement savings after all...we all all here to share a mutual passion.

You kidding? Being older is FUN! I love starting my sentences with "When I was your age..."