Frs vs s2000

[Speed2th]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

^ You must be reading forum posts that are 5-10 years old. Those aren't the items s2k thefts target nowadays...

Do you own a s2k?

Used clusters can be found for dirt cheap, under $50.
Shift knobs... $20
AP1 wheels... full set for $200 Even includes a pair of rears!

Did you know s2ks upgrade to accord brake calipers?

this discussion had carried away from what OP started and I think we should end it here. I believed s2k parts are higher demand and has higher risk of theft, if you disagree, it is ok!

I don't own s2k now, just for a brief week. however, when i had my civic, integra, and prelude, forums or people around me are constantly looking for s2k parts for upgrade.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Speed2th

2. 12 years, the technology and engineer had improved a lot. Although i do not know all detail of what is more advance. I think the low and posterior engine placement is the most challenge design - no other production cars can even touch the spot. structure engineering is also great that it is light weight and rigid. (as recently it has excellent crash result).
4. from what i observed, only cars that can share parts with other lower end cars get stolen A LOT more. i.e = integra, s2k, rsx, escalate, civic si...etc.
6. i agreed F20C/ F22C are great engines. I said boxer engine is sexy is completely subjective. it just like some people think rotary engine are hot (IMO it is the most unreliable engine design ever). or some people think single speed bike are hot.
8. forgiving is not necessary means balance. sorry for misleading it was suppose to be two separate sentence. as last sentence ("FRS is a more balance car") suppose to be my closing conclusion.

To elaborate my conclusion, I mean to say FRS is a more balanced car that is fun to drive, practical, fairly comfortable, safe, and economical. S2k is an excellent car but I cannot daily that car.

I'm sorry, but I don't think you can give the BRZ the nod for engine placement. The FA20 is placed lower in the chassis than the FC20/22, purely because of it's boxer design. However, despite the FC20/22 being a longer engine it sits far further back in the chassis than the FA20. The chassis of both vehicles is very stiff, to the point that I don't think you can use it as an argument for either.

As to technology:

Hand built, forged internals & VTEC >>> Port and Direct Injection
Double Wishbone suspension all around >>> MacPherson Struts & multilink rear

As an S2000 owner who does DD his car I can tell you it is not that difficult. To me the minor inconveniences are well worth it to enjoy the brilliant driving. And what's all this discussion about the BRZ being roomier than the S2000?! For the driving position I beg to differ. I finally sat in a BRZ this past weekend and I was shocked and dismayed to discover this car does not have enough leg room inside. Upon further investigation (Edmunds.com) I see that the S2000 has 44.3 inches legroom while the BRZ only has 41.9 inches.

Consider me frustrated. BTW I'm just under 6'2" and 195lbs. Not at all "big".

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I'm sorry, but I don't think you can give the BRZ the nod for engine placement. The FA20 is placed lower in the chassis than the FC20/22, purely because of it's boxer design. However, despite the FC20/22 being a longer engine it sits far further back in the chassis than the FA20. The chassis of both vehicles is very stiff, to the point that I don't think you can use it as an argument for either.

As to technology:

Hand built, forged internals & VTEC >>> Port and Direct Injection
Double Wishbone suspension all around >>> MacPherson Struts & multilink rear

As an S2000 owner who does DD his car I can tell you it is not that difficult. To me the minor inconveniences are well worth it to enjoy the brilliant driving. And what's all this discussion about the BRZ being roomier than the S2000?! For the driving position I beg to differ. I finally sat in a BRZ this past weekend and I was shocked and dismayed to discover this car does not have enough leg room inside. Upon further investigation (Edmunds.com) I see that the S2000 has 44.3 inches legroom while the BRZ only has 41.9 inches.

Consider me frustrated. BTW I'm just under 6'2" and 195lbs. Not at all "big".

It may be smaller in one dimension, but the BRZ/FRS is far roomier in most aspects, and it will carry a whole lot more.

[enigma]

Toyota and Subaru can argue low center of gravity all they want, but I'd happily trade the FA20 for an F20C that sat a little higher in the engine bay. That engine is loads more exciting than the FA20 probably ever will be. :\

[DespaiRepair]

Contrary to my previous post, I will give the s2000 a win in longevity, I know some very abused s2Ks that are still running strong...and the transmission in the s2K can't be beat...and the aftermarket scene? There's more parts for s2Ks than there are for 240s...and Nissan guys will know that's a feat and a half...but I've been to Honda days and watched people pull tools outta their back pockets and adopt a new CAI...i don't really wanna associate with that crowd...

[Opposed]

Originally Posted by enigma

Toyota and Subaru can argue low center of gravity all they want, but I'd happily trade the FA20 for an F20C that sat a little higher in the engine bay. That engine is loads more exciting than the FA20 probably ever will be. :\

How so? I came from an AP1, and unless you are above 6k, the car was a dog. The FA has more usable torque than the F20 down low, and it comes on 2k lower. Now after a tune and running E85, I would walk on my old AP1.

[trifenix]

^true story. Slow before 6k.

[vang]

Originally Posted by Opposed

How so? I came from an AP1, and unless you are above 6k, the car was a dog. The FA has more usable torque than the F20 down low, and it comes on 2k lower. Now after a tune and running E85, I would walk on my old AP1.

Throw in some JDM stickers, some spinner hubcaps, and a Supra wing and the S2000 will demolish a 911 GT3 RS. Although I don't believe you one bit that a tune can help the FA20 that much, you're comparing apples to oranges, Toretto.

What I don't understand is why people have problems with the F20C's Civic mannerism on the street. There are millions of people driving Honda Civics, Toyota Corollas, and Nissan Sentras out there. I can assure you that these cars AND the S2000 have no issues getting up to the usual street limit of 25mph. Do you expect to have a more "engaging" trip to 25mph?

To those who bitch about the lack of low-end torque for the tracks? Well, fools, you're obviously in the wrong gear and being OUT of VTEC is your problem. Certainly there will be times when a broader range would be ideal, but no car is perfect --> your FA20 stops pulling in the upper range.

When the peak torque happens is all relative. Sure, the FA20 gets its "useable" torque about 2000rpm earlier, but it has 2000rpms less to use in the top end. If you care that much about when you get your torque, why not get a TDI, that way you get your instant torque and 4500 redline to go with it.

Again, NOT knocking the FRS/BRZ (I want one myself), but to say the FA20 "walks" the F20C is a bit more than wishful.

[Opposed]

Originally Posted by vang

Throw in some JDM stickers, some spinner hubcaps, and a Supra wing and the S2000 will demolish a 911 GT3 RS. Although I don't believe you one bit that a tune can help the FA20 that much, you're comparing apples to oranges, Toretto.

What I don't understand is why people have problems with the F20C's Civic mannerism on the street. There are millions of people driving Honda Civics, Toyota Corollas, and Nissan Sentras out there. I can assure you that these cars AND the S2000 have no issues getting up to the usual street limit of 25mph. Do you expect to have a more "engaging" trip to 25mph?

To those who bitch about the lack of low-end torque for the tracks? Well, fools, you're obviously in the wrong gear and being OUT of VTEC is your problem. Certainly there will be times when a broader range would be ideal, but no car is perfect --> your FA20 stops pulling in the upper range.

When the peak torque happens is all relative. Sure, the FA20 gets its "useable" torque about 2000rpm earlier, but it has 2000rpms less to use in the top end. If you care that much about when you get your torque, why not get a TDI, that way you get your instant torque and 4500 redline to go with it.

Again, NOT knocking the FRS/BRZ (I want one myself), but to say the FA20 "walks" the F20C is a bit more than wishful.

What's with the ricer Fast and the Furious remarks towards me? How do you not believe a tune helps the FA that much? There are dyno's all over this forum that a flash and E85 gains 40whp and 30wtq over stock. Visconti put down 199whp and 162wtq on a BRZ. My AP1 put down 202whp and 136wtq with full exhaust and intake. Now factor in the lighter weight and better aero than an S2000. And im pretty sure I knew how to drive it and keep it in the correct gear. The only thing that sort of helped was installing the 4:77 final drive. I daily drove mine for over 5 years.

[enigma]

Originally Posted by trifenix

^true story. Slow before 6k.

In stock form, the FA20 is slow all the time, lol. That's my point. I mean, it's not a HUGE deal. After all, I'm still looking for an FR-S despite the fact that I'm not crazy about the engine. I always told myself over the years since Toyota introduced the idea of the FR-S/GT86/BRZ that if it was like a practical S2000, I'd absolutely buy one. The engine is a let down imho, but the chassis and balance of the car might be good enough to make up for it.

Maybe what Opposed is saying is right in that with some mods, the FA20 gets more exciting. Though I for one have no interest in running E85 in something I'm going to daily drive. It completely ruins gas mileage and isn't worth it imho. If the car made 200 rwhp off of E85, I'd be absolutely stoked. It'd be the perfect car imho.

[CSG Mike]

Keeping the car in the right gear isn't as easy as it sounds on track. Sometimes, you're forced to sit in a higher gear for various reasons (back to back turns, the actual time it takes to shift, etc.). However, that same reasoning applies to the BRZ/FRS too.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Opposed

What's with the ricer Fast and the Furious remarks towards me? How do you not believe a tune helps the FA that much? There are dyno's all over this forum that a flash and E85 gains 40whp and 30wtq over stock. Visconti put down 199whp and 162wtq on a BRZ. My AP1 put down 202whp and 136wtq with full exhaust and intake. Now factor in the lighter weight and better aero than an S2000. And im pretty sure I knew how to drive it and keep it in the correct gear. The only thing that sort of helped was installing the 4:77 final drive. I daily drove mine for over 5 years.

Well, to be fair here, you need to convert the S2000 to E85 and tune it too...and that will make it more powerful than the FA20 once more.

[iLuveKetchup]

Originally Posted by Opposed

What's with the ricer Fast and the Furious remarks towards me? How do you not believe a tune helps the FA that much? There are dyno's all over this forum that a flash and E85 gains 40whp and 30wtq over stock. Visconti put down 199whp and 162wtq on a BRZ. My AP1 put down 202whp and 136wtq with full exhaust and intake. Now factor in the lighter weight and better aero than an S2000. And im pretty sure I knew how to drive it and keep it in the correct gear. The only thing that sort of helped was installing the 4:77 final drive. I daily drove mine for over 5 years.

Ever drive a flashed tuned AP2 (06+) w/ test pipe?

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

It may be smaller in one dimension, but the BRZ/FRS is far roomier in most aspects, and it will carry a whole lot more.

I definitely can't argue with that, however legroom is the most important measurement for me. I need enough legroom 100% of the time. I need to haul 2+ people and/or an extra set of tires way way less than 25% of the time.

And LOL at the people talking big about E85 tunes. Never in my life have I seen a fuel station that had E85. Granted I live on the east coast but we're talking about over 30% of the US's population here.