Unofficial - CEL/SL/Idle Issue List for FR-S/BRZ Owners

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by ftc~brz

Hey art, I hit 7200 rpm a few times today and here's what my car learned...now I have cel/idle/slp and a new one....

wait for it

Wait for it

Fucking cruse control light now stuck on! Baaaahaha
I didn't even know wtf that one was when I saw it lit up. Haven't driven it enough to even think about CC.
My dash now looks like a Xmas tree! but hey, I haz shiny new cam sprockets and valves

Round 2 cel service tomorrow. Will keep y'all posted.

Shinny new cam sprockets and valves rock!

I noticed that happened to me to when I had the CEL and tried to use the CC. Me thinks your fingers may have accidentally touched the on/off button?

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by Marrk

Not sure I get your point. Honda, for instance, produces 197 hp in-line-4s with the same alacrity with which your mama bakes toll house cookies. In other words (if I have to spell it out), no big deal.

But most of them are larger displacement. 100hp/l NA is rather a feat.

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by ftc~brz

Hey art, I hit 7200 rpm a few times today and here's what my car learned...now I have cel/idle/slp and a new one....

wait for it

Wait for it

Fucking cruse control light now stuck on! Baaaahaha
I didn't even know wtf that one was when I saw it lit up. Haven't driven it enough to even think about CC.
My dash now looks like a Xmas tree! but hey, I haz shiny new cam sprockets and valves

Round 2 cel service tomorrow. Will keep y'all posted.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by einzlr

But most of them are larger displacement. 100hp/l NA is rather a feat.

Huh? Honda makes a lot of inline-4s that displace greater than 2.0L? I guess I was absent that day.

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by Marrk

Not sure I get your point. Honda, for instance, produces 197 hp in-line-4s with the same alacrity with which your mama bakes toll house cookies. In other words (if I have to spell it out), no big deal.

Yummy cookies aside CMOS may be onto something. This point about the tight tolerances within motor have been comming up here and there around the Internet. From what I understand the operating tolerances for the FA20 are tighter than usual, a lot tighter.

I'll research this a little further and get back to you two when I can find something concrete...

[Rich1]

Originally Posted by AsianStyle

I believe the 600xxx numbers are for BRZs. The 700xxx numbers are for the FR-S.

You are right it seems like the very early build cars do not appear. The most troubled cars seem to be have VINs in the 706xxx - 707xxx. Much fewer counts on either side of the 706xxx - 707xxx.

Agreed for the BRZ seems like most issues are happening with 602xxx and above. Only one 603xxx though. Have not seen any 601xxx. Will be driving a 600xxx tomorrow and provide an update.

[SmknGunz]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

The cliff notes version is you have nothing to worry about until your CEL comes on and it get diagnosed with as a P0016, P0017, P0018 or a P0019 DTC. At that point buy a six pack, relax and read 60+ very entertaing pages.

As for you second question, search first and then post your question in the engine section.

Like I said, I'm not really worried at all. Was just providing my two cents with what I noticed on RPMs at idle with low miles on my auto.

Much love for this car...

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

Yummy cookies aside CMOS may be onto something. This point about the tight tolerances within motor have been comming up here and there around the Internet. From what I understand the operating tolerances for the FA20 are tighter than usual, a lot tighter.

I'll research this a little further and get back to you two when I can find something concrete...

Good idea. As it happens, I love concrete. In fact, I was just discussing quikrete at a dinner party last night . . . .

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by SmknGunz

First off, don't hate me for getting the auto, I do have a left knee problem. That aside, I have to say it's one helluva car! I'm loving it, and everyone that sees it does too.

BTW. I have an automatic too an I'm loving it. Those super speedy up shifts and down shifts are awesome and I'm so glad I don't have to deal with a clutch pedal anymore...

[ftc~brz]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

Shinny new cam sprockets and valves rock!

I noticed that happened to me to when I had the CEL and tried to use the CC. Me thinks your fingers may have accidentally touched the on/off button?

Nope no sir. I can't multi task and drive I'm blonde. Ha no really I was white knuckled on the wheel cuz the last visit in reset my nav so cyber-wench was screaming at me to make a left turn! Only other place for my fingers would have been my ears!
W/O car so long I forgot how to lower the volume on her!!!!

Every time new lights come on and stay on in my car is when my hubby is shotgun
New rule: he's no longer allowed IN my car
Lmao

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

Yummy cookies aside CMOS may be onto something. This point about the tight tolerances within motor have been comming up here and there around the Internet. From what I understand the operating tolerances for the FA20 are tighter than usual, a lot tighter.

I'll research this a little further and get back to you two when I can find something concrete...

It's come up in a couple of other threads in this forum, one with a notice from Scion. Shouldn't be too hard to find.


edit: here:

Response from Scion about rough idle problem

and here:

Originally Posted by switchlanez

Somewhere in one of these ECU threads someone who works at a dealership posted how every FR-S (like 5-8) they got on or before launch time (pre-production models?) showed this idle issue. I think Toyota/Subaru have known about this and got the failure rates down low enough to decide to launch the car. Also, a few months back technical documents were released showing details on the engine. IIRC mechanics on this forum were commenting on how unusually tight the tolerances were (and how long term, reliable forced induction would be a tall order/unfeasible)...

Subaru and Scion state it's purely software (ECU) related. A new ECU map was introduced mid-August yet there are VINs from after that time frame seeing the problem. I believe the new map reduces the likelihood but does not 100% eliminate the problem.

I believe this is a hardware/software interoperability issue [this is the engineer in me talking]. Tolerances are tight making this engine... touchy. You can only get the stacked tolerances of the oil journals, cams, casting, etc. to be so good yet always have a 1% +/- x-factor fail rate. Subaru/Scion PR wants you to believe it's purely software; in a way they can be right. When SW is controlling HW, there's no hard line separating which side the culprit lies. Components in the cam timing system would have to be revamped for all new parts/tolerances and would require retooling at engine assembly. Again, I believe they were aware early on ith the problematic prototypes and mitigated it from the hardware side the best they could before production rolled out. Now they leave it up to SW catch and clean up any straggling HW.

Some owners see symptoms after 8 miles, some after 6000, some never. Some only need an ECU reflash, some get their engine rebuilt and don't see it again, some continue to see it after 3+ returns to the shop. It's all over the map. Lack of consistency makes the problem impossible to isolate to one thing.

I have no conclusion here; just digesting what I've noticed in recent posts and posing the HW vs. SW question. On a slight tangent...



I remember when the redesigned 2000 Celica came out which had some similarities... new engine design, 100hp/liter, 11.5:1 high CR on premium fuel. It had a "lift" mechanism which activated a different set of cam lobes for a more aggressive cam timing profile. All triggered by oil pressure mechanically vs. electronically controlled VTEC/VVT-i which it also had. Just another moving part to go wrong... and it did. People were breaking their "lift" bolts and eventually revised bolts were made. Those people were in a tiny minority and many owners never had to change lift bolts, I believe. Anyway, this is all deja vu to me.

[SmknGunz]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

BTW. I have an automatic too an I'm loving it to. Those super speedy up shifts and down shifts are awesom and I'm so glad I don't have to deal with a clutch pedal anymore...

Nice!

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

BTW. I have an automatic too an I'm loving it to. Those super speedy up shifts and down shifts are awesome and I'm so glad I don't have to deal with a clutch pedal anymore...

Off Topic: The AT in this car sets a new standard. Totally unbelievably good.

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by einzlr

It's come up in a couple of other threads in this forum, one with a notice from Scion. Shouldn't be too hard to find.

Notice from an official source would be helpful (I haven't see that yet)