Unofficial - CEL/SL/Idle Issue List for FR-S/BRZ Owners

[Plxdjake89]

Originally Posted by Cade01

That seems like a lot of miles for them to put on it!

Edit: I just realized that it came out with less miles on it than when it went in! That is very suspicious!

Lol I made a mistake! Thx for catching that

[Plxdjake89]

Originally Posted by Yruyur

Are they rolling back the odometer on these things?:confused:

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I meant 4495 lol!

[86BRZ]

I play with the numbers a little, on the 124 reported cars today, deleted those without reporting mileage, convert reported km to miles:
The lowest one: 8 miles.
The highest one: 6479 miles.
Average: 1203 miles.
Median: 885 miles.

I guess if a new car can get past the first 1500-2000 miles without CEL it shall have a lesser and lesser chance....keep my finger crossed everyday.

[jesperswe]

My cam gear was replaced and no cel yet. But strange idle some times.
No new ecu, code was 0017.

[switchlanez]

Somewhere in one of these ECU threads someone who works at a dealership posted how every FR-S (like 5-8) they got on or before launch time (pre-production models?) showed this idle issue. I think Toyota/Subaru have known about this and got the failure rates down low enough to decide to launch the car. Also, a few months back technical documents were released showing details on the engine. IIRC mechanics on this forum were commenting on how unusually tight the tolerances were (and how long term, reliable forced induction would be a tall order/unfeasible)...

Subaru and Scion state it's purely software (ECU) related. A new ECU map was introduced mid-August yet there are VINs from after that time frame seeing the problem. I believe the new map reduces the likelihood but does not 100% eliminate the problem.

I believe this is a hardware/software interoperability issue [this is the engineer in me talking]. Tolerances are tight making this engine... touchy. You can only get the stacked tolerances of the oil journals, cams, casting, etc. to be so good yet always have a 1% +/- x-factor fail rate. Subaru/Scion PR wants you to believe it's purely software; in a way they can be right. When SW is controlling HW, there's no hard line separating which side the culprit lies. Components in the cam timing system would have to be revamped for all new parts/tolerances and would require retooling at engine assembly. Again, I believe they were aware early on ith the problematic prototypes and mitigated it from the hardware side the best they could before production rolled out. Now they leave it up to SW catch and clean up any straggling HW.

Some owners see symptoms after 8 miles, some after 6000, some never. Some only need an ECU reflash, some get their engine rebuilt and don't see it again, some continue to see it after 3+ returns to the shop. It's all over the map. Lack of consistency makes the problem impossible to isolate to one thing.

I have no conclusion here; just digesting what I've noticed in recent posts and posing the HW vs. SW question. On a slight tangent...



I remember when the redesigned 2000 Celica came out which had some similarities... new engine design, 100hp/liter, 11.5:1 high CR on premium fuel. It had a "lift" mechanism which activated a different set of cam lobes for a more aggressive cam timing profile. All triggered by oil pressure mechanically vs. electronically controlled VTEC/VVT-i which it also had. Just another moving part to go wrong... and it did. People were breaking their "lift" bolts and eventually revised bolts were made. Those people were in a tiny minority and many owners never had to change lift bolts, I believe. Anyway, this is all deja vu to me.

[beardy]

Joining up the exclusive CEL/Rough Idle club from Sweden here. 994 Miles (1600km) on the odo and the car is back at the dealers workshop. So far I am the third (that I know of) in Sweden with this problem.

However I seem to have joined an even more exclusive part of the CEL club, it does not give any errorcodes.. so perhaps time to play the superlotto I guess?

Thank god I got this Yaris Hybrid while the 86 is in the shop, afterall, performance bathtubs with wheels is all you wish for, right?

Update:

Toyota garage just called me, Error Code P0019, they opted to order in parts for VVTi cam gear and oil control change, and requested that Toyota Europe also would request to get the ECU update availabe for the European/Scandinavian market as soon as possible. Toyota Sweden said that their really was no real need for the VVTi cam gear and oil control change, but my Dealership opted to do it anyway. They have reset the errors, engine is out of "running shitty" for the moment, and I can pick it up tomorrow and return the bathtub. Will probably just use my backup transportation, a Honda Ruckus, until the parts arrive - which due to being in tall backorder list in the American market (I wonder why ) probably wont get a speedy delivery over here.

[Grishbok]

im sorry man, driving a yaris is like riding a scooter wrapped in tin-foil.

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by Yruyur

Parameter ID. If you know the id the signal sends then you can tell the torque app to watch for it.

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I actually didnt know. It there a "map" for all of the engines PID's?

[egraphic]

It is unlikely that your FR-S will run better for long with just a reset of the error. You may end up driving that Yaris longer than you would like to, I'm sorry to say.

If the error returns, I recommend leaving it with the dealer until they have the part and tell you that it's entirely fixed. You'll probably see that line of thought as you read through this thread!

Good luck!

[Yruyur]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

I actually didnt know. It there a "map" for all of the engines PID's?

There is aanother thread "open ecu" where someone I'd trying to identify the unknown ones. But no updates.

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[jduffy]

Originally Posted by 86BRZ

I play with the numbers a little, on the 124 reported cars today, deleted those without reporting mileage, convert reported km to miles:
The lowest one: 8 miles.
The highest one: 6479 miles.
Average: 1203 miles.
Median: 885 miles.

I guess if a new car can get past the first 1500-2000 miles without CEL it shall have a lesser and lesser chance....keep my finger crossed everyday.

I'm at 2,000 miles and I have an earlier number so I'm wondering if I'll miss out on all the fun.

It's intriguing how nebulous this issue is, people are looking for concrete facts but they just don't seem to exist which is creating all the angst.

[mact]

Look, we're on Autoblog now!

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by jduffy

It's intriguing how nebulous this issue is, people are looking for concrete facts but they just don't seem to exist which is creating all the angst.

The truth indeed...

[rapidcars]

Originally Posted by mact

Look, we're on Autoblog now!

"Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons said that when the engine control unit (ECU) is installed, it adapts to the car's powertrain and owner's driving patterns, a process known as adaptive learning. Within 100 miles, those settings are basically frozen in the ECU."

Where did this come from and why weren't we told this? I babied mine as per the manual and to think of it, the problems started as I got closer to 1k miles and started being a little more loose with keeping the rpms under 4k.

It also supports the numbers in this thread:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18613