FR-S/BRZ vs. Genesis Coupe

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

RRnold, I love most of the aspects of my rsx but I hate the k20 engine with a passion. Sure its a reliable engine but its a torqueless POS. Also the brakes and tranny is the worst. I drove civics and walked away unimpressed.

I'll admit when Acura changed the Integra to the RSX and most of the Honda's in the late 90's became very bland, I knew they weren't going in the right direction.

I'm not sure how old you are but most of the fun Japanese cars were in the 80's/90's, especially Toyota! Most, if not all of their cars were RWD, trucks were bulletproof w/an optional turbo and their mini vans were rollie pollies!

[iff2mastamatt]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

RRnold, I love most of the aspects of my rsx but I hate the k20 engine with a passion. Sure its a reliable engine but its a torqueless POS. Also the brakes and tranny is the worst. I drove civics and walked away unimpressed.

Honda has always used awful breaks for their cars.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

333hp V6. And I highly doubt Hyundai would give the 2.0T 274hp (though it might not be hard to prod it out of the motor with a few cheap mods) simply because there would be no real reason to buy the more expensive V6.

Matador, your logic never ceases to disappoint . The Sonata already has the 274BHP turbo GDI engine that everyone is mentioning/salivating about. I think the Turbo GenCoupe competing with the V6 is the least of their problems since it's such a niche vehicle.

But they eliminated the V6 on the Sonata! On their midsize! Can you imagine how much that will kill their sales!?

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

RRnold, I love most of the aspects of my rsx but I hate the k20 engine with a passion. Sure its a reliable engine but its a torqueless POS. Also the brakes and tranny is the worst. I drove civics and walked away unimpressed.

*Derp*
I heard that they are increasing the displacement of the Civic Si next gen, have you looked at it yet?

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

Matador, your logic never ceases to disappoint . The Sonata already has the 274BHP turbo GDI engine that everyone is mentioning/salivating about. I think the Turbo GenCoupe competing with the V6 is the least of their problems since it's such a niche vehicle.

But they eliminated the V6 on the Sonata! On their midsize! Can you imagine how much that will kill their sales!?

I'm fully aware of the existence of the 274hp DI engine in the Sonata. What makes you think Hyundai feel obligated to put it in the gen coupe? Not saying they **should not** I just don't think that they will, yet. Guess we will see how that pans out a lil later this year. Feel free to pop by the thread and scream "I told you so" If you are correct.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

I'm fully aware of the existence of the 274hp DI engine in the Sonata. What makes you think Hyundai feel obligated to put it in the gen coupe? Not saying they **should not** I just don't think that they will, yet. Guess we will see how that pans out a lil later this year. Feel free to pop by the thread and scream "I told you so" If you are correct.

NOTHING!

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by ToyotaObsession

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean_manufacturing

Toyota really started to run with Lean after WWII during Reconstruction. It was actually taught to them by an American. It's nothing new, but it's how they go about it, constantly trying to drive out waste. You have to remember Toyota has been doing it a long time and have made their manufacturing process very efficient. When you intitally implement Lean you don't see many improvements but over time you'll see marked improvements. It can be applied to anything, but the way you go about it in a Hospital is different than building Cars.

The recalls have literally nothing to do with Lean. It had to do with Toyota's climb to be #1 in the world. Their quality slipped because they weren't keeping an Eye on their suppliers like they should have.

Dude... you can find cues from any car and relate them to almost any other car. OEM's are always chasing the next big thing and sometimes that means copying each other. You'll find that the American Big 3 have been stealing the Asian style for the last 10 years. European OEM's have been straddling their own style with the Asian style too.

As for "nobody intentionally carves their own path." that is complete and utter bullshit. All great leaders carve their own path. What about the people who invent new things? Who are they following and failing? Microsoft? Google? Apple? Sir Isac Newton? Eisenstein? I mean the list goes on and on. These aren't people who just copied what other did and failed and tried again. They innovated and became leaders. They found new ways and invented new things all together.

You gotta remember there's some companies that have dominated their respected markets for hundreds years. They don't roll over every few years. Sure the Korean Auto Manufacturers might take over, but I don't see it happening. The Japanese know what a threat the Koreans are. They aren't going to make the mistake the Big 3 did in discounting the threat of the Japanese. They also didn't keep up with the times. The Japanese have been innovators and done a pretty good job of predicting where markets are headed. Sure they make mistakes, but you look at the number of Bombs the big 3 have dropped compared to Toyota and Acura.

if you want to argue all of these secondary points we can but i was trying to shed light on the fact that 30 years ago the same thing could be said about japan and the cars they made. if people are going to take the time to be ignorant they should avoid hating on the things that made all their favorite companies great

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by fatoni

if you want to argue all of these secondary points we can but i was trying to shed light on the fact that 30 years ago the same thing could be said about japan and the cars they made. if people are going to take the time to be ignorant they should avoid hating on the things that made all their favorite companies great

One issue with this is the Koreans have yet to lead or innovate. Out of all the companies, I think they will come closest to the Japanese, but their only chance to surpass them is when they begin to become leaders in new applied technologies.

The Japanese haven't invented much that I can think of in terms of auto tech, but they have been leaders in applying and refining tech invented by others in a viable way. So far I haven't really seen that from Hyundai. And motorsports programs played a huge part of that for the Japanese companies.

Also with the national rivalry between the two countries, and Korea always being seen as a second to Japan, they are very motivated to try to pass the Japanese, where if Japanese companies start getting lazy in the lead (Toyota...) it will be the time for the Koreans.

Keep in mind that people studying Lean manufacturing will generally be familiar with Kaizen, But I've never heard of any Korean vocab trickling into manufacturing-speak.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Dimman

One issue with this is the Koreans have yet to lead or innovate. Out of all the companies, I think they will come closest to the Japanese, but their only chance to surpass them is when they begin to become leaders in new applied technologies.

The Japanese haven't invented much that I can think of in terms of auto tech, but they have been leaders in applying and refining tech invented by others in a viable way. So far I haven't really seen that from Hyundai. And motorsports programs played a huge part of that for the Japanese companies.

Also with the national rivalry between the two countries, and Korea always being seen as a second to Japan, they are very motivated to try to pass the Japanese, where if Japanese companies start getting lazy in the lead (Toyota...) it will be the time for the Koreans.

Keep in mind that people studying Lean manufacturing will generally be familiar with Kaizen, But I've never heard of any Korean vocab trickling into manufacturing-speak.

we have to wait and see. rhys millen has been doing some great things with hyundai at pikes peak. i want to see this beast they are making to take the all time record up there. you have to start somewhere i guess. while i wouldnt buy a sports car from korea now, the genesis sedan and equus are just shy of their respective respected models for half the price. well see what happens. i hope its good. competition means we win

[fernan2]

BUMP!!!



NEW GRILL, LIKE THE ELENTRA.

[slusoccer00]

Originally Posted by RRnold

I'll admit when Acura changed the Integra to the RSX and most of the Honda's in the late 90's became very bland, I knew they weren't going in the right direction.

I'm not sure how old you are but most of the fun Japanese cars were in the 80's/90's, especially Toyota! Most, if not all of their cars were RWD, trucks were bulletproof w/an optional turbo and their mini vans were rollie pollies!

I love my S2K, thank you very much!

BTW I also enjoy driving my wife's 2011 Sonata SE and I thought my dad's genesis was pretty solid as well, with the equipment it has vs paying other competitors prices, it can't be beat especially with the warranties, standard equipment.

These last two years Hyundai has completely changed their business around. You wouldn't have caught me dead in a Hyundai or Kia 2 years ago. They've impressed me entirely, absolutely no complaints!

I have owned 4 Honda's in my life and I will never buy another "brand new" Honda ever again and probably only one Used Honda, another S2000. They have completely become satisfied with average. Their Civics, Accords, CRV's, Pilots, etc have just gotten too bland (exterior and interior) for me and as soon as you add all these optional features you've just take the car way out of its price range vs. Hyundai's/Kia's that already have it included at a Honda (even Toyota's) base price.

My wife has 16,000 miles on her Sonata and is still loving it. Was it as fun to drive as her 2010 VW GTI w/ DSG auto? No! But the features, cost to maintain, and the overall use of the vehicle has been nothing but suburb for her and she prefers the Sonata over the GTI. (The GTI had electrical issues out the @ss!)

My father loved his Genesis as well. He put over 28,000 miles on his 2010 Genesis in a single year. My personal take the suspension could have been better but other than that, I had no complaints and neither did he. He did however get rid of the car after a year of ownership, he was ready to get into something bigger and better.

[tranzformer]

Now it is just a question of whether the 274hp turbo Sonata engine and the V8 make it into the new GC.

[slusoccer00]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

Now it is just a question of whether the 274hp turbo Sonata engine and the V8 make it into the new GC.

Well it won't happen till next year because Hyundai's website had just updated their Genesis Coupe 2012 info and still retains the same engine/transmission/etc.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by slusoccer00

Well it won't happen till next year because Hyundai's website had just updated their Genesis Coupe 2012 info and still retains the same engine/transmission/etc.

The pics you posted are for the updated version. I thought that is what we were all talking about right? The issue was if Hyundai will put those engines in the new body design (i.e the turbo Sonata engine or the Tau V8 engine). No way they would put it in the 2012 car. 2013 model is the earliest they would do it.

[slusoccer00]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

The pics you posted are for the updated version. I thought that is what we were all talking about right? The issue was if Hyundai will put those engines in the new body design (i.e the turbo Sonata engine or the Tau V8 engine). No way they would put it in the 2012 car. 2013 model is the earliest they would do it.

I didn't post them up.

I hope those picture posted up will have the bigger engines. Fingers crossed.