The Smart Money: FR-S Vs Cayman S Comparison by Car and Driver

[madoka]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

The Cayman S costs 3 times as much but is it really 3 times better overall?

As an owner, I'll say this. The reasoning in the article and this thread is misrepresentative, because you have to buy the FR-S at pretty much MSRP, but the Cayman S is often discounted up to $20,000. Thus if you do a TRUE cost to cost comparison, the Cayman is really much closer to being twice as expensive as the FR-S, and not three times. That's still a lot, but it's exaggerated in the article because they are not taking into account street prices.

[86'd]

Originally Posted by madoka

As an owner, I'll say this. The reasoning in the article and this thread is misrepresentative, because you have to buy the FR-S at pretty much MSRP, but the Cayman S is often discounted up to $20,000. Thus if you do a TRUE cost to cost comparison, the Cayman is really much closer to being twice as expensive as the FR-S, and not three times. That's still a lot, but it's exaggerated in the article because they are not taking into account street prices.

Really? I didn't know they "discounted" Caymans. Not being sarcastic, I'll just never be in the market for one...well maybe in 10 years.

[chantaiman51]

There is no such thing as spending three times the money to get three times the fun in any hobby/object/toy. You are not doing grocery shopping here. In this case, if you have $25k to spend on a fun car, then you buy the FRS. If you have $75k, then the CS is the more attractive choice. Both cars are the best choice in their own price category. It's absurb to say its smarter to buy the FRS over the CS.

For people who say or just try to rationalize that they can "afford" to buy the CS but chose not to do so becuase of "smart" money management or hard to justify the cost. Forget it, you simply can't afford it, just plain and simple.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by chantaiman51

For people who say or just try to rationalize that they can "afford" to buy the CS but chose not to do so becuase of "smart" money management or hard to justify the cost. Forget it, you simply can't afford it, just plain and simple.

Explain that one, starting from how much wealth and/or net income (or whatever metrics you want) you need to be able to "afford" a CS. Should be interesting...

[86'd]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Explain that one, starting from how much wealth and/or net income (or whatever metrics you want) you need to be able to "afford" a CS. Should be interesting...

I think he might get off on a technicality.

I think a lot of people, maybe even on this board, can't "afford" the FR-S. Sure they're making payments, but the difference is not affordability, it's attainability. People make it work and that has a large part to do with how easy it is to get a loan.

I could "afford" a leased Cayman S @ about 1K a month. But it would be pretty stupid to do.

Personally I would have to make at least $150K a year to barely afford/buy and eventually own a Cayman. That's assuming around 2500 a month including payment, insurance, gas, maintenance, etc. And that's also assuming that my wife either has her car paid off or has a significantly cheaper car.

Also with a Cayman or any other luxury car in general, things are that much more expensive and my budget reflects that.

But again my wife and I aren't rich my any means but I could sure finagle my finances to put a Cayman in my driveway, but it doesn't really mean I can afford it.

[chantaiman51]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Explain that one, starting from how much wealth and/or net income (or whatever metrics you want) you need to be able to "afford" a CS. Should be interesting...

First thing first, you have to determine whether the CS is your DD primary car or weekend toys/garage queen. If it's a DD meaning you will use the car for going to work, directly or indirectly useful for your work environment that favors/requires nice car, (law firm/management/medical office/real estate/high end retail business, etc...) then you can apply the often quoted 20% rule for car purchase. There are minor variations of this rule, but my interpretation is the following:

Let say the total purchase price of the CS is $80k. The monthly payment with interest on a 48 month loan with 20% down payment is $1400. Gas/insurance/maintenance is roughly at $300 a month. So to find out how much annual income you'll need to afford the CS, you will just use $1700 X 12 months / 20% = $102k.

If the CS is going to be just a weekend toy/garage queen, its going to be alot simpler. Ask yourself three questions:

1. Is your primary residence paid off?
2. Do you have extra $80k sitting in the bank?
3. Is wife okay about the purchase?

If all three answers are yes, then you can afford a CS.

[Zaggeron]

Originally Posted by 86'd

I think he might get off on a technicality.

I think a lot of people, maybe even on this board, can't "afford" the FR-S. Sure they're making payments, but the difference is not affordability, it's attainability. People make it work and that has a large part to do with how easy it is to get a loan.

I could "afford" a leased Cayman S @ about 1K a month. But it would be pretty stupid to do.

Personally I would have to make at least $150K a year to barely afford/buy and eventually own a Cayman. That's assuming around 2500 a month including payment, insurance, gas, maintenance, etc. And that's also assuming that my wife either has her car paid off or has a significantly cheaper car.

Also with a Cayman or any other luxury car in general, things are that much more expensive and my budget reflects that.

But again my wife and I aren't rich my any means but I could sure finagle my finances to put a Cayman in my driveway, but it doesn't really mean I can afford it.

Well put. I think the sense of "afford" at work here is one of "would not require a substantial change in your standard of living". If you have to start eating Top Ramen and Mac & Cheese, stop going to the movies or put off redecorating, then you can't afford it in this sense.

On the other hand, if the extra money in payments or the removal of the money from your bank account is not hugely significant -- not necessarily insignificant since 75k is a significant chunk of money to a lot of folk who can afford a Cayman S -- then you can probably "afford" it.

[Turbowned]

Well, all I know is that there's at least one guy who traded a Cayman R for a BRZ, meaning they could afford it, but decided to take the extra money and use it for something else (in his case, racing budget). I think if I could afford a Cayman R I'd probably do the same. What I wouldn't give for even a small club racing budget - I'd race a Spec Mazda 2 if I could!

[chantaiman51]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

Well, all I know is that there's at least one guy who traded a Cayman R for a BRZ, meaning they could afford it, but decided to take the extra money and use it for something else (in his case, racing budget). I think if I could afford a Cayman R I'd probably do the same. What I wouldn't give for even a small club racing budget - I'd race a Spec Mazda 2 if I could!

The guy bought the Cayman R but that doesn't mean he could afford it. The Cayman R could have a $60k loan, there might not be any extra money in the car. In fact, the guy might be eating ramen noddle every night just to make payment.

Or the guy could afford the car but soon realized he couldn't afford driving it on the track. he has no choice but to down grade to a lower level car.

Let's just change the number a little bit. If you have a $100 or $1000 extra sitting in your bank, a Cayman S or R cost $8 and a BRZ is $3. Racing budget/cost for the porsche is $1.5 and BRZ is 50 cents. Do you want to drive a CR or Spec Mazda 2 on the track?

No matter how you cut it, CS is not the best sports/track car out there and it has alot of shortcomings such as vague shifter, soft clutch, wetsump 9A1 motor, relatively numb steering feel, weak engine sound, etc... But it's still much much better than FRS/BRZ in every way.

[SVThis]

20K discount on a Cayman S ??????

[st162celica]

Originally Posted by was385

There's no such thing as a base porsche. Walking through a dealership and looking at the window stickers is hysterical. I'd guess that most of the options are pretty much ubiquitous. Our family has a used 911 s and while there's no question that it's significantly more fun to drive than my BRZ, it's not over three times the amount of fun to drive (and that was the used price). Bottom line for me though, is I'm happy there are such great cars in the Porsche price range and happy that Toyobaru have created one in the BRZ/FRS price range. Great for car guys.

Yeah 3 times the price, doesn't mean 3 times better.

Great value for money for us guys that cant afford something 3 times the price. Well in Aust its close to 4 times the price.

Dont get me wrong I love Porsche. More than any of the other brands. But in Aust, you can only dream of having cars like that.

BRZ - $40,000 drive away with leather and sat nav
86 GTS - $40,000 drive away with leather and sat nav

Porsche 911 Carrera S
2012
$263,100
7 speed Manual
2 door Coupe

Porsche Boxster S
2012
$138,600
7 speed Sports Automatic Dual Clutch
2 door Convertible

Porsche Cayman S
2011
$152,800
7 speed Sports Automatic Dual Clutch
2 door Coupe

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by chantaiman51

For people who say or just try to rationalize that they can "afford" to buy the CS but chose not to do so becuase of "smart" money management or hard to justify the cost. Forget it, you simply can't afford it, just plain and simple.

Originally Posted by chantaiman51

Let say the total purchase price of the CS is $80k. The monthly payment with interest on a 48 month loan with 20% down payment is $1400. Gas/insurance/maintenance is roughly at $300 a month. So to find out how much annual income you'll need to afford the CS, you will just use $1700 X 12 months / 20% = $102k.

OK now take that one step further. Using your $1700/mo figure, let's say your monthly expenses are:

$2500 (mortgage + property tax prorated)
$1700 (CS payment + insurance + gas + maintenance)
$2000 (other expenses)
$2000 (savings/investment)
----------------
$8200 take-home needed (post-tax)

Fair break-down? If that's your income requirement for "affording" the CS, then I'm proof you're wrong. I clear that requirement and then some and still opted for the FR-S because the CS wasn't worth the additional cost to me. The CS is a nice car, but no way is it worth 3x an FR-S. I'd rather buy the FR-S and invest the rest of the money elsewhere, which I am.

Obviously you're a Porsche owner and I'm sure you're proud of the brand, but you come across as being arrogant/snobbish when you make the assumption that because someone chooses not to buy a Porsche, they couldn't afford it. There are plenty of reasons not to buy a Porsche, even when one can easily afford to.

[madoka]

Originally Posted by 86'd

Really? I didn't know they "discounted" Caymans. Not being sarcastic, I'll just never be in the market for one...well maybe in 10 years.

Yup. Some new luxury and sports cars are discounted big time. I was looking at an Aston Martin Vantage that was discounted $50,000 off the MSRP, before I decided on my last car. The Cayman is not horribly popular and is heavily discounted. In response, Porsche shrunk Cayman inventory so they are now pretty hard to find. The dealerships around me have 0-2 of them at any given time.

[madoka]

Originally Posted by chantaiman51

If the CS is going to be just a weekend toy/garage queen, its going to be alot simpler. Ask yourself three questions:

1. Is your primary residence paid off?
2. Do you have extra $80k sitting in the bank?
3. Is wife okay about the purchase?

If all three answers are yes, then you can afford a CS.

I answered "no" to all three.

Judging by my certificate of title, it took me 3.5 months to pay off the car. I don't think anyone would argue that I couldn't "afford" it.