Let's discuss SCCA Stock Class

[fastmike]

I think moving to street tires with a treadwear of 180 minimum is a move forward for most of the stock classes.
My Solstice ZOK will be a better choice in RTR then the BRZ-FRS.
But! I guess we will all see if I am correct or not.
If RT* keeps growing, then something will probably happen.
I like the idea of classing R tires and streets together with a modifier for the members that choose streets to level the playing field.

[ABQautoxer]

Originally Posted by Sccabrz192

I'd be concerned by pushing RTs to all stock classes, in order to set their tires performance apart, you will see tire life deminish back to the point of lots of tire shaving and still autocross specific compounds, it just wouldn't solve anything long term.

Also FWIW, we are within OE specs for alignment, and with double-wishbone even with the stiffer suspension and less used travel, we didn't significantly alter the tirewear characteristics (aside from dumping gobs more torque and HP out back.

One interesting fact was a lot of the top guys in STR at Nats this year ran Star specs and did not shave them. I found that fascinating personally.

[Sccabrz192]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

street tires have been very popular here in Canada

for the average competitor arriving and driving competitively without having to carry tools and spare tires around has been a big plus.

The day we had street tire classes introduced was the day i stopped bringing my jack with me. On event day i wake up, grab my helmet, tire pressure gauge and pump, a bottle of water and a sandwich. Off i go.

My hands stay clean, my knees don't get fucked up, and my car's trunk doesn't get destroyed.

Rain events no longer ass-fuck me, i pop open my umbrella and strut around like a boss, chillin.


Do street tires save on costs for the die-hard competitors who are aiming for 1st place nationally? NO. But that's a whole different breed of competitors, and if anything i'll get more satisfaction from getting close to the top on a single set than actually being at the top having blown all my wife-allowance.

That's cool for the locals, our region has offered street tires to stock competitors since 2000, and there is absolutely a place for it there and it has been very successful. But I'd be a hard sell to believe that someone with that type of commitment level and attitude will travel over a thousand miles to compete nationally.

[Sccabrz192]

Originally Posted by fastmike

I think moving to street tires with a treadwear of 180 minimum is a move forward for most of the stock classes.
My Solstice ZOK will be a better choice in RTR then the BRZ-FRS.
But! I guess we will all see if I am correct or not.
If RT* keeps growing, then something will probably happen.
I like the idea of classing R tires and streets together with a modifier for the members that choose streets to level the playing field.

using Treadwear to determine the capability of a tire is one of my biggest issues with the RT push. Treadwear is more or less an arbitrary measurement, chosen by the manufacturer based on how they want to market a tire. A test spec benchmarks the tire against a baseline tire, and the manufacturer is given a "max rating" for the tire, from there they can choose how to rate it.

I only don't support that for the simple reason that each car will react very differently if it is on R-comps compared to road tires... so each car would end up with it's own index per its potential... but the idea is in lines with my solution.

I'd rather see a significant reduction in classes all together. I'd be perfectly fine with almost every level being reduced to the classing structure you see in RT, but leaving them segregated...

If it were up to me to re-class SCCA Solo from scratch, I've had 2 ideas I've been throwing around... one would be to structure everything like the new RT and all are compared on a car's prepped potential index (A-H or whatever) like the current one... cars would compete in the following classes:

RT-AWD
RT-FWD
RT-RWD

Stock R-comp-AWD
Stock R-comp-FWD
Stock R-comp-RWD

ST-AWD
ST-FWD
ST-RWD

SP-AWD
SP-FWD
SP-RWD

SM-AWD
SM-FWD
SM-RWD

Prepared-AWD
Prepared-FWD
Prepared-RWD

That drops you from 37 classes to 18 !!!!!

I think it'd be unrealistic to do the above with Mod, so that would remain the same.

[fastmike]

We had some RT people go WAY over 1K miles to the big show and other events this year????

[fastmike]

I am a member who thinks that there are not too many classes.
You make the minimum #'s, you have your class.

[ABQautoxer]

We drove 1800 miles total on our RT tires to, from and around Lincoln all week. We ran and trophied in the RT Finale and RTA on them. We felt like we gave up nothing performance-wise doing this and it sure was nice, easy maintenance. We did the same thing for the other two Pros (TX and NM) and the CO Tour as well.

[Sccabrz192]

Originally Posted by fastmike

We had some RT people go WAY over 1K miles to the big show and other events this year????

Wow... seems like every comment I make is being taken out of context to prove me wrong lol gotta love the internetz....

My point was that the attitude he was conveying of a local was that of someone who wouldn't put effort in to travel and be a huge part of the sport, only that of someone who shows up to the event down the street and complains he has to stand around and pick up cones for half the day.

[fastmike]

Fair enough.
Sorry.

To get bacm on point, where should the twins go if they turn out to be too slow for current CS?

DS?

[ABQautoxer]

Im still waiting to see the RT cars that are towed to events. No matter what you do, people will do this.

[Sccabrz192]

Originally Posted by ABQautoxer

Im still waiting to see the RT cars that are towed to events. No matter what you do, people will do this.

HAHAHA perhaps in a few years if they do react to the good RT turn outs and exit R-comps from stock class I will be one who does naaaah, I'll just go to SP

And to Mike's comment, I'm still convinced CS is the right place... as the car matures through its product cycle it will end up competitive.... the 2013 may just not be the hot ticket.... bummer for us.

[fastmike]

If the 2014 gets wider wheels, that might help.

[xwd]

Originally Posted by fastmike

Fair enough.
Sorry.

To get bacm on point, where should the twins go if they turn out to be too slow for current CS?

DS?

I think they will move cars out of CS to make them competitive. Also not all cars are competitive to Win the class but can still trophy. The one car which showed up this year at nats with very little prep wasn't really that far out of a trophy and had a trophy spot after the first day. IMHO if they move the cars out of CS they might as well just fold the current CS into BS and start over. The numbers in CS, apart from RTR, have continued to dwindle.

[xwd]

Originally Posted by fastmike

If the 2014 gets wider wheels, that might help.

Unless they do something else like widen the front fenders and use a lower offset wheel you still won't be able to fit a 275 A6 in the front. The front spring perch just sits in the wrong place.