Few complaints about the handling need solutions

[regal]

I know everyone raves about the handling of the FR-S, and its phenomenal under 55 mph.

But the stock setup just isn't cutting it for me. At higher speeds it can get bouncy in the front, also there is a point where there is too much lateral body sway away from the wheels as well.

I know enough that trying to piece together the right solution would take more time, trial and error and money than I have, and I don't have time to **** with coil-overs.

Usually what I do is buy the OEM's upgrade, so I would just buy the TRD shocks/springs for a Toyota and be happy, because I know that the new car we buy off the lot is a compromise to give a comfortable ride for average joe. And that TRD doesn't lie about rate, is engineered for the dampers and last as long at an OEM.

I noticed that the FT86 has a higher front spring rate than the FR-S, but the back is too low. Niether have a 1" drop which I know the car needs.

So I need springs/dampers that are better than stock, correctly balanced ratio between F&R , about 1" drop, don't lie about rates, will last hold up , and well matched to a quality damper.

This car's chassis is amazing for the price. But I need help with three things:

1. Front end bounce thru dips and turns at higher speeds.
2. Sharp lateral body sway across the wheel base on turns at higher speeds
3. The steering ratio seem too much at higher speeds. ( I think the answer is e-assist can''t be changed, get used to it.)


Unfortunately TRD isn't offering a simple spring/damper/swaybar upgrade/1" drop. So I need advice. Looking at the sticky the RS-R S/Down are closest to what I need but are the spring rates listed real, is this a OEM quality brand? Are they truly stiffer than stock or just a lowering spring? What about dampers, will they "match".

Or should I wait and TRD/JDM will offer someting besides coil-overs?


thanks

[Racecomp Engineering]

Right now there are 0 options for an upgraded fixed perch replacement damper, but I'm sure they will be coming. It may be a little while though.

The standard shocks are actually decent and can handle a good increase in spring rate. We posted the shock dyno elsewhere and it's available on our Facebook.

In our opinion the front is a little too soft, especially on the FRS.

Yes the motion ratio leads some to believe that ultra stiff in the rear is the way to go BUT the front of the car uses a macstrut suspension which benefits from firmer rates a lot more than the rear of the car. We've gone a different route than most with our performance springs by avoiding an overly stiff rear.

- Andrew

[jamal]

A good start would be a set of springs (like the RCE yellows maybe...), and then once a good damper is out (RCE Bilistein, Koni), you can add those.

The only other option for a good damper/spring combo are a few of the coilovers out. JRZ RS1s, AST 4100/4150, KW V3s for example, but they are more expensive and use stiffer springs.

[dori.]

I'd also look at what STI has coming out

[Calum]

I don't like the way it dips and wobbles in the front either. Have you thought about tires instead of springs. The tires may be the cause of the bounce and the sway, atleast that's what I've been attributing it to.

My plan for the suspension at this point is better tires, stiffer bushings in the rear for more feedback and more alignment options, com-c top hats and camber bolts up front. From there I'll see if the bounce is gone and the twitchyness of the FRS setup is gone.

I would like stiffer front springs, but I don't want to go too far. Honestly I'd love to get my hands on the 185 lb/in springs that were on the preproduction model RCE had. Combined with the stock FRS rear springs I think it would work VERY well. As it is, I've been debating on picking up a set of used BRZ front springs to see how they feel.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Calum

I don't like the way it dips and wobbles in the front either. Have you thought about tires instead of springs. The tires may be the cause of the bounce and the sway, atleast that's what I've been attributing it to.

My plan for the suspension at this point is better tires, stiffer bushings in the rear for more feedback and more alignment options, com-c top hats and camber bolts up front. From there I'll see if the bounce is gone and the twitchyness of the FRS setup is gone.

I would like stiffer front springs, but I don't want to go too far. Honestly I'd love to get my hands on the 185 lb/in springs that were on the preproduction model RCE had. Combined with the stock FRS rear springs I think it would work VERY well. As it is, I've been debating on picking up a set of used BRZ front springs to see how they feel.

you mean camber plates and maybe pillowball mounts?

[Calum]

Originally Posted by fatoni

you mean camber plates and maybe pillowball mounts?

No, I mean com-c top hats and camber bolts

http://www.tougetuning.com/store/eib..._86_94_146_398

http://www.tougetuning.com/store/whi..._86_94_146_398

[bpracer]

Maxed out in an 80mph turn, my FRS' rear end is trying real hard to break loose and the traction control light is flashing like crazy. Amusing, but not fast.

I'm also waiting to see what STI comes out with. I've also thought about installing BRZ front springs. I don't want stiffer rear springs at the back regardless of the front rate

I also hear a "crunch" every once in a while from the front suspension while cornering over fairly good sized dips. At first I thought it was the anti-lock brakes doing something funny. I would hope I haven't run out of suspension travel. It almost sounds like a splash shield rubbing on the coil spring, odd!?!

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by bpracer

Maxed out in an 80mph turn, my FRS' rear end is trying real hard to break loose and the traction control light is flashing like crazy. Amusing, but not fast.

I'm also waiting to see what STI comes out with. I've also thought about installing BRZ front springs. I don't want stiffer rear springs at the back regardless of the front rate

I also hear a "crunch" every once in a while from the front suspension while cornering over fairly good sized dips. At first I thought it was the anti-lock brakes doing something funny. I would hope I haven't run out of suspension travel. It almost sounds like a splash shield rubbing on the coil spring, odd!?!

You'd be surprised...with those ultra-soft front springs you're probably well into the bumpstops at the least.

- Andrew

[RYU]

Everyone is talking about having too much front bounce are driving FR-Ss right?

I have one canyon run under my belt with the BRZ, on stock tires 1500miles, and have taken turns faster than i'd like to admit. I've isolated a few areas to improve on but front end bounce wasn't one of them. Admittedly, I was too busy being mesmerized by this awesome 6AT.

In reality the spring rates aren't drastically different between the fronts of the BRZ vs. FRS but if you look at the front/rear ratio the difference is pretty significant (I did the calculation below). No wonder why the FR-S seems to be so tail happy (I'd love to drive one!!).

OEM Scion FR-S F2.3k & R3.8k | F2.3 R3.8 = 62% rear bias
OEM Subaru BRZ F2.7k & R3.5k | F2.7 R3.5 = 56% rear bias


I ended up with the RCE Yellows because the 4.5k/4.5k makes sense for the kind of driving I like to do and they come very highly recommended from my Subie track buddies. I'm in the process of installing them now and seems like a good piece of kit. My only minor complaint so far is that the springs themselves weight more than the stock (at least in the rear, will find out about the fronts tonight). The stock damper is not fantastic but it's pretty darn good. Way better than even the stock dampers on my brother's M-Sport 128i

[jeebus]

With my BRZ, after camber bolts up front and a good alignment, the car is insanely neutral without any nervousness or bounce. When I first got the car I thought it needed a spring swap to get rid of the initial understeer that switched over to oversteer rather quickly. But I no longer feel any spring changes are needed.

[RYU]

Originally Posted by jeebus

With my BRZ, after camber bolts up front and a good alignment, the car is insanely neutral without any nervousness or bounce. When I first got the car I thought it needed a spring swap to get rid of the initial understeer that switched over to oversteer rather quickly. But I no longer feel any spring changes are needed.

Tires?

[Norkoastal]

Originally Posted by jeebus

With my BRZ, after camber bolts up front and a good alignment, the car is insanely neutral without any nervousness or bounce. When I first got the car I thought it needed a spring swap to get rid of the initial understeer that switched over to oversteer rather quickly. But I no longer feel any spring changes are needed.

Newbish questions forming...... Can you tell me what exactly you added and the intended goal? Im always game for a more "pure" alignment and tracking angle for my DD (reduced tramlining or wandering at highway speeds). Are these just track mods or things that made DD more enjoyable and tire wear the same?

[Racecomp Engineering]

With the OEM camber bolt you can get a little more negative camber up front...usually around -1.2 to -1.5. The result is much more grip and better turn-in. It's still not enough to result in excessive or uneven tire wear. The rear has more than this stock for reference.

It's a 10 dollar must-have mod for every car IMO. The factory alignment is not all that great...very conservative. I'd expect more uneven tire wear on the factory alignment to be honest.

- andrew