Penske Coilovers.

[Josh B]

Originally Posted by GingerExtract

Did I read that right, $5,000+ for shock absorbers? Enjoy paying $1,000's more for only a few tenths of a second compared to an OTS shock. More often than not, the driver will make up or flub the difference.

Building a competitive race car is not cheap. When you dump all of your heart, soul and bank account into a season to try and win a championship, you might understand.

This type of suspension is not being marketed to the occasional trackday or auto X enthusiast.

[coyote]

$5k won't buy you top flight suspension. Not even close.

The difference is staggering, but there's no point trying to explain to the majority of people on this forum.

[Josh B]

Originally Posted by coyote

$5k won't buy you top flight suspension. Not even close.

The difference is staggering, but there's no point trying to explain to the majority of people on this forum.

Very true. $5k is just scratching the surface when it comes to suspension. I cry when I think of how much a proper GT setup costs because I will never be able to afford it. (or the car for that matter)

[GingerExtract]

Originally Posted by MmmHamSandwich

For someone who autocrosses, you know what the margins are in serious competition racing. This suspension is not for people who race locally as a past time hobby, we're talking nationally competitive people and pro series.

I don't see why people are complaining about the price. This will be a serious racing suspension, for... serious racing. Slamming your car to the ground (the reason the far too many people buy coilovers) will make it handle like turds no matter what suspension choice you go with, might as well buy the cheap shit and save money. If you just want better handling or adjustability but don't need the capabilities of a pro, there are already lots of options, and likely to be many more on the way.

Sure, for the vast majority of us out there, this money would be far better spent on driving lessons and track time. If you're going to be racing with pros however, (ie: when a few tenths means the difference between winning and losing) then expect to pony up. Realistically, this suspension is probably only going to be meant for a select few on this forum.

I don't doubt that Penske makes a great product, there's a reason people buy their shocks/coilovers, and I agree with everything you have said, but as an autocrosser (and the odd track day driver) I know that coning in AX, or "traffic" at track days, or any other tiny variance in runs could make or break the difference, that's all I'm getting at. I feel that more often than not, people just throw parts at their cars hoping it will make them competitive when more often than not, the car could exceed the driver's capabilities from the get go.

[Walldodger]

Sorry to revive an old post. But has anyone heard more news as to how far closer Penske have come with their struts?

[xwd]

Penske themselves are not building anything for this car afaik. I was working with Anze Suspension who has finished all of their modeling/measurements they need to produce a setup built with Penske parts, which is fairly common. Penske builds their own suspension parts for very few cars. This would include a custom front strut and rears based off an existing Penske shock.

[Walldodger]

Oh ok, at the top of this thread miwialex says that he emailed Penske asking if they planned to develop a set for the 86/FRS/BRZ/and so on.
I had the impression they still where in development. I guess they may make some in the future.
Oh well.

[Racecomp Engineering]

JRZ has a 3 way that is developed for road racing. Its based off of their latest 1231 piston.

We just took these pictures a few days ago.

http://www.racecompengineering.com/i...t-dampers.html

[Dimman]

Why Penske > most other dampers*



Because raceshock.

* edit:

Damper companies. Their regressive curves are not exactly standard.

[mobybrz]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Why Penske > most other dampers*

Damper companies. Their regressive curves are not exactly standard.

How much fun would it be to add a regressive spring setup to that? Were those spring setups a DTM thing or a BTCC thing?

I wish more companies would publish damper maps for their products. It makes me wary of brands I don't know. I have been lucky enough to get to use Penske dampers (and Ohlins race dampers during FSAE). The dampers aren't necessarily better but they are inherently better. The tradeoff is lots of ways to get truly lost. That tradeoff is inherent in ANY fully adjustable shock. It is a risk/reward thing...more opportunity to tune to perfection, more opportunity to tune away from perfection. Honestly...go buy 'Tune to Win' and start reading.

If you are interested in actually using adjustable shocks I would suggest you just dedicate a track day or AX day not to racing but to practicing. Go set the shocks to the extremes, and then the other extremes. see what the difference is between full soft and full hard, hard compression with soft rebound and vice versa. From working with a lot of newer drivers over the years most don't even know what to feel much less how to feel it or what to do. Sometimes using those extremes is a really good way of teaching that feel and is a dual opportunity to develop that feeling and become a better driver by becoming a more knowledgeable one.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

JRZ has a 3 way that is developed for road racing. Its based off of their latest 1231 piston.

We just took these pictures a few days ago.

http://www.racecompengineering.com/i...t-dampers.html

$9000?

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by mobybrz

How much fun would it be to add a regressive spring setup to that? Were those spring setups a DTM thing or a BTCC thing?

I wish more companies would publish damper maps for their products. It makes me wary of brands I don't know. I have been lucky enough to get to use Penske dampers (and Ohlins race dampers during FSAE). The dampers aren't necessarily better but they are inherently better. The tradeoff is lots of ways to get truly lost. That tradeoff is inherent in ANY fully adjustable shock. It is a risk/reward thing...more opportunity to tune to perfection, more opportunity to tune away from perfection. Honestly...go buy 'Tune to Win' and start reading.

If you are interested in actually using adjustable shocks I would suggest you just dedicate a track day or AX day not to racing but to practicing. Go set the shocks to the extremes, and then the other extremes. see what the difference is between full soft and full hard, hard compression with soft rebound and vice versa. From working with a lot of newer drivers over the years most don't even know what to feel much less how to feel it or what to do. Sometimes using those extremes is a really good way of teaching that feel and is a dual opportunity to develop that feeling and become a better driver by becoming a more knowledgeable one.

I have a Koni process somewhere. It's actually simple (if you have testing time and place). I think Carroll Smith had it in his books, too.

Starting point is they have valving and shimstack recommendations for the frequency/wheel rate, then follow their instructions for comp/rebound. I'll see if I can dig it up exactly. Penske also has a good flowchart for handling tuning, too.

With the real-deal companies, your money isn't just for their product, it's also for them to share their collective expertise with the customer.

[mobybrz]

Originally Posted by Dimman

With the real-deal companies, your money isn't just for their product, it's also for them to share their collective expertise with the customer.

Sorry, my post wasn't really clear. I was commenting more on the 'teaching someone what damper tuning feels like' before they get to the actual 'tuning dampers part'. Carroll mentions at one point the idea of teaching a new driver what a blown shock feels like. I'll bet most don't know and wouldn't know immediately.

BTW, The collective expertise at Penske is awesome, and they help their customers. Now matter what hairbrained idea FSAE students take to them they always have a happy and helpful answer.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Dimman

With the real-deal companies, your money isn't just for their product, it's also for them to share their collective expertise with the customer.

Exactly. JRZ is really good at that and though I don't have experience with Penske they likely are as well (and ANZE). The Penske shock manual is awesome as well.

- Andrew