Unofficial - CEL/SL/Idle Issue List for FR-S/BRZ Owners

[Alienate]

Originally Posted by Alienate

Ok, here is my update. I am #84 on this list. 600 total miles FR-S.
Took car into Reno Toy/Scion yesterday with CEL on and SL. Told Service guy "Mark" about the rough idle and handed him the first 4 pages of this thread. He had never heard of this problem. Looked for Service bulletins, found none. I mentioned about latest news being a New ECU or a Flash of it.
They never got the car on the reader, and just drove me home.

Got a call from Mark at 1 pm today.
He said: "Talked to Toyota, they are sending a new ECU. No ETA on it's arrival date. Toyota wants us to not release the car back to you for "safety reasons" I will call you when I get more info."

I said thanks and hung up.

I called back just now to find out what CODES were dropped, but I just got his voice mail.
I will update here as soon as he calls me back.

Code was P0019, eta on new ECU was 4 to 5 days.

Called today, Fri, 21st. Was told NEW ETA on ECU was OCT 30 !!!
I nearly shit in my pants. I said this was not OK, and I wanted a loaner.
They immediately gave me a loaded Camry SE.
I asked about other compensation as my car will be in the shop for 42 days by Oct. 30.
They gave me SOA's number and told me to call them. I spoke with a first level person who took down my car details and told me a Second level person would call me on Monday to go into further detail.

My question to you guys is: "what would be/is Fair Compensation for my trouble? I drove the car for 11 days and now it's going to be gone for 42.

[Alienate]

Originally Posted by schmickle

My car has been in the shop since the day I purchased it with CEL/trac light. They replaced the VVTI gear and ECU twice with no success. On the 30th day I called SoA and they agreed to buy my car back.

I could be wrong, but isn't this the guy who was banned? This sounds like an intentionally inflammatory post, unless he would be so kind as to back it up with more facts, like what dealer? What codes? Milage, and SOA case number.

Again, my bad if this is all true, but it smells a tad fishy to me.

[schmickle]

Originally Posted by Alienate

I could be wrong, but isn't this the guy who was banned? This sounds like an intentionally inflammatory post, unless he would be so kind as to back it up with more facts, like what dealer? What codes? Milage, and SOA case number.

Again, my bad if this is all true, but it smells a tad fishy to me.

I haven't been on this forum long and haven't been banned on this forum before. Im sorry if you believe my story is fishy but I am just reporting my experience with the car. Just because it doesn't match up with a happy owners story doesn't mean I'm posting an intentionally inflammatory response. Should I post a pic of my car to be believed? (hope the pic works, never posted pics before and sorry if its too big). I was just merely responding to the post above mine concerning lemon laws in their state and how my experience with the lemon law worked for me.
[IMG][/IMG]

[Alienate]

Originally Posted by schmickle

I haven't been on this forum long and haven't been banned on this forum before. Im sorry if you believe my story is fishy but I am just reporting my experience with the car. Just because it doesn't match up with a happy owners story doesn't mean I'm posting an intentionally inflammatory response. Should I post a pic of my car to be believed? (hope the pic works, never posted pics before and sorry if its too big). I was just merely responding to the post above mine concerning lemon laws in their state and how my experience with the lemon law worked for me.
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Please accept my apology. We have had a few weird posts.
What hoops did SOA make you jump through to give you a full refund?

[450hp/tonne]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

Don't kid yourself, even if Toyobaru knows the root cause (and with 100's of the planets best powertrain engineers and their immense resources it's inevitable they will get to the bottom of this)...

...they will NEVER tell us. We won't be in the know because it's probably not going to be in their best interests

Customers need to know that both manufacturers can support vehicles with the issue. You are right that the details of the cause should never be shared publicly. The research done on here did surprise me!

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

450hp/tonne[/URL] you know this better then just about anyone here because you and Moto-P are both Toyota employees and you're both engineers

Last edited by @Art_Mighty; 09-14-2012 at 02:13 AM. Reason: outing 450hp/tonne!

Outing me?

[schmickle]

Originally Posted by Alienate

Please accept my apology. We have had a few weird posts.
What hoops did SOA make you jump through to give you a full refund?

No prob. All I had to do was express how inconvenienced I have been and stress how uncomfortable I would be to drive my "brand new" BRZ that had the engine rebuilt before I could even put any miles on it. I also added that it would not be fair to me if one day I decided to sell the car only to find that the value is lowered because of it. I also stressed my concern for safety of the car if any problems were to pop up in the future. After I told my SoA rep my concerns in a calm voice, he offered to buy back my vehicle. I would prefer to get a replacement BRZ but my rep told me he could not guarantee he could get one because of how scarce they are to find right now over here, so they will buy it back instead.

[michaelahess]

Originally Posted by 450hp/tonne

Customers need to know that both manufacturers can support vehicles with the issue. You are right that the details of the cause should never be shared publicly. The research done on here did surprise me!



Outing me?

Explain.

This isn't North Korea....

I, and everyone else here, wants to know the root cause.

[450hp/tonne]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

(most things you've said)

I like the way you think ...

[450hp/tonne]

Originally Posted by michaelahess

Explain.

This isn't North Korea....

I, and everyone else here, wants to know the root cause.

In order to keep my job, here is something someone else prepared earlier:

Originally Posted by TanMan

*UPDATE folks*

I could not find a Subie Corporate email to fwd the questions but sent a feedback form anyways from Subie's website. This is their response this morning. Note words in bold are the kind of response anyone could expect from a proactive company....





To ________

From:CustDlrServices@subaru.comSent:Fri 9/14/12 6:22 AMTo:







Dear ___ Tan:

Thank you for visiting the Subaru Web site and for your order of a BRZ through Subaru ________.
We understand the concerns you have with the reports online of concerns with 2013 BRZ vehicles. Your message has been documented in our Customer/Dealer Services database. This will allow for your message to be properly reviewed, tracked and considered by our Product Management Department. Subaru is always striving to improve upon our products and appreciates when our customers bring their interests and concerns to our attention.
Subaru is aware of these concerns through our processes briefly noted below. We are working to resolve all issues at the dealership and factory levels. This work, as you can imagine, is ongoing and not reserved to BRZ vehicles. When we become aware of recurring concerns with a model or model line, we research and identify the issues, which prompts the necessary repairs.

As a company, we carefully monitor warranty claims, parts needs, dealer contacts, customers contacts to us directly and quality survey comments to watch for any trends or concerns that can lead to customer dissatisfaction. The process we have established works well for us and in turn, it is helpful to our customers.

While the information presented at internet sites in broad, our needs are a bit more specific than what is supplied there. For example, we would need to track vehicle identification numbers (for production dates, etc.). An open public posting forum is not the best place for a customer to keep this information in the interest of safety and privacy.

Subaru is very committed to customer satisfaction. Should you have any concerns with your BRZ, please be sure to advise us and most importantly, your Subaru dealer.
Thank you again, ______, for your time and feedback.
Sincerely,

John J. Mergen
Subaru of America, Inc.
Customer/Dealer Services Department
1-800-SUBARU3 (1-800-782-2783)
Service Request #1-20896xxxxxxx

... somewhat cookie-cutterish but the fact that they state "We are aware and are working on this issue." is enough for me at this point.

[michaelahess]

I get you not wanting to get in trouble for saying anything, the companies should. I can only assume this is something that is very damaging to them, which is honestly all the more reason to come out with it.

Is my car at risk? Just because I haven't had this issue yet, how will covering up this information protect the customer?

Should I stop driving my car so things don't get worse? This isn't pro-active.

[Grishbok]

I understand the frustration that those who are having this problem have. That being said, I am curious, if the roles were reversed, if YOU were the Executive in charge of the FRS/BRZ, how would you handle this given situation? Would you a. jump the gun and freak out over a forum with a thread regarding the issue, recall ALL sold cars to date, replace any part in question and end up costing your employer billions in revenue on cars that may or may not have ever even had an issue to start with? b. Look at the cars being brought back and reported through your official channels, attempt to isolate and uncover the common denominator using your dealer networks and service technicians training and experience. or c. what would you do differently?

Should you stop driving your car out of fear? That doesnt make much sense, if you dont have the problem, and your car is operating as it should, drive it. Thats why you bought it. If something breaks, and a problem DOES occur, you have a warranty, and they WILL fix it. This is the reason for a warranty. So far, Subaru and Scion have done an impecable job at addressing these concerns with unheard of customer service. Many of you have posted you have received reimbursement for your monthly payment. They did not HAVE to do this. You signed a document saying you would pay x amount each month you owned the car. Good luck getting reimbursement from Audi. Theyd walk out and drop a dookie on the hood of your car before they ever gave you a cent. If you have the problem, let the dealer networks do their thing. They have been at this game a lot longer than any of us, and the executives in charge, have been trained and groomed specifically for their job role. They are doing everything they can.

I would implore those of you who are apprehensive to be patient, and let the system they have in place run its course of resolution. They will do right by you and their product.

Those who have the problem and are apprehensive for the mechanical fix, You have a valid concern and you are not obligated to have the work done. You are more than at your right to forfeit the warranty fix at this time. I caution taking this action for long however, for if more damage occurs as a result, they will be unlikely to warranty the additional damage.

[450hp/tonne]

Originally Posted by michaelahess

I get you not wanting to get in trouble for saying anything, the companies should. I can only assume this is something that is very damaging to them, which is honestly all the more reason to come out with it.

Is my car at risk? Just because I haven't had this issue yet, how will covering up this information protect the customer?

Should I stop driving my car so things don't get worse? This isn't pro-active.

I'm not trying to cover anything and don't see it as damaging, just overly technical. The warranty provided covers repairing the vehicle (which can take time to get the parts needed), but not disclosure of all corporate information to customers.

Once a global standard repair method is developed, I'm sure a clear explanation will be provided to dealers needing to perform repairs. Until then, information shared may not apply to everyone and create confusion.

Just drive your car the way it was intended and have fun, knowing that any car with the problem will be fixed as quickly as possible. Given time, the situation may become proactive, but until then you can't damage the car unless you ignore the CEL.

[michaelahess]

My issue is my remoteness. Closest Subaru dealer is 3 hours away. If my car develops the issue, will they allow my local Toyota dealer to fix it, or truk the damn thing to the nearest dealer?

I knew this was a first MY vehicle, but it's also coming from Toyota and Subaru, two of the most reliable brands out there. I have rather high expectations of quality control. From what I'm seeing issues wise with these cars, they aren't being met.

I'm an engineer for a different field entirely. In our field we give RFO's (Reason for Outage) to our customers when we have failures. These won't divulge company secrets of course but they will explain why and what caused the problem as well as what steps are being taken to remedy the situation and prevent further issues. We loose business, get investigated by the government, you name it. We still do it, and generally speaking, it's not something that's very life threatening, like a car catching on fire could be.

Sure it takes time to find the cause, but if Toyota even said, "Once we figure out the exact cause and resolution, we will inform you." I would be happy. Then after their supply chain is in order they release the TSB or notice of the root cause.

They don't need to say "sensor Z from manufacturer P had a failure in the A," just a function of the blah blah subsystem was miscalibrated and caused an occasional massive nuclear explosion of blah blah blah with potential side affects of xyz.

That way you get a good idea of what the issue is, and you can make an informed decision about getting repairs done. Do I trailer it to the dealer 3 hours away, can I safely drive it that far, should I get the manufacturer to deal with everything up until the point where the car is back in my driveway?

From what I've read in this thread, it sounds like the problem has been isolated and is being fixed. At this point they sure as hell should know the expected VIN's that could face this issue and notify those owners to get the vehicle in to be checked out.

OK done ranting, obviously I believe in transparency and sharing patents

[michaelahess]

Originally Posted by 450hp/tonne

I'm not trying to cover anything and don't see it as damaging, just overly technical. The warranty provided covers repairing the vehicle (which can take time to get the parts needed), but not disclosure of all corporate information to customers.

Once a global standard repair method is developed, I'm sure a clear explanation will be provided to dealers needing to perform repairs. Until then, information shared may not apply to everyone and create confusion.

Just drive your car the way it was intended and have fun, knowing that any car with the problem will be fixed as quickly as possible. Given time, the situation may become proactive, but until then you can't damage the car unless you ignore the CEL.

Was composing while you were posting. I completely understand your position and respect it. I just don't like vague answers from corporations that are obviously critical to their customers.

That last sentence is all I needed to hear. Thank you! Now get Toyburu to advertise that little detail and I'm sure a lot of folks would be comforted. If they have, I haven't seen it and I'll eat my words.