S3 Magazine Real vs Fake Wheel article

[Propaganda]

For those touching on quality, even higher priced, "real" wheels can fail. Obviously not as frequently as lower end or "cheap" ones. As people mentioned, that's due to materials/manufacturing process.

However, even cheap wheels, such as rota, have come a long way from what they used to be. I know people that track on expensive and cheap wheels... both have been fine without issues.

What's important to look at is HOW the wheel failed, i.e. what conditions was the wheel subjected to first. Poor fitment for a wheel (mostly "fake" ones, unfortunately) is often overlooked (e.g., brake caliper rubbing against the wheel). Running off track or slamming into a curb is often overlooked. The end result is usually the same: "Brand X sucks don't get them, look how they broke."

Originally Posted by S2kphile

From my experience is to never go cheap on tires & wheels reason being is because they're the first contact patch to touch the ground. Tires go, you're FUCKED, wheels fracture/break/come off you're fucked.

That's obvious. Pretty sure if my tire popped or fell of the bead at all (due to an off-track or w/e)....even a set of $2k+ wheels are gone. Doesn't matter if it's $250/wheel or $750... asphalt+metal=not good

[Propaganda]

In addition, I'm not advocating to use cheaper wheels or more expensive wheels. Either can be just as functional. Care needs to be taken, regardless which type one chooses. Slamming into a pot hole can be bad for any wheel, not just a cheaper one. In the end, choose a wheel that you think meets your needs.

[phenom86]

What do you guys consider "Fake" vs "Real"?.. every wheel are real, they are just rebranded for different markets.. If you consider Rotas fake which are "reproductions" of and they have been tested on track and in house to make sure they are safe. my friends in the philippines uses rotas for drifting, track and everyday usage.. One particular friend of mine uses custom rota wheels for his cars and he drifts the cars on rotas plus he told me he'd rather use those than expensive wheels.

Cefiro A31 RB25 17x9.5 ET (-10) 235 45 17


His M5 with custom wide wheels


If you guys do a search and look up wheels UK, you will find also wheels that have been reproduce for their market to fit their cars which those wheels are not available in our country. This has been an on going debate through all the forums.. here are pics of "REAL" wheels that broke.. then ask yourself how much you would pay for wheels.. Id buy Rotas any day, use the saved money for some expensive tires.

Enkie RPF-01


Advan TC-II


SSR


Custom HRE Wheels


Rays (notice Made in Japan)

[RAYSSPL]

Yes we know that even real, high quality wheels can fail and that's fact. Any wheel can fail really. The issue here which fails more often? Imitators or innovators?

[phenom86]

Originally Posted by RAYSSPL

Yes we know that even real, high quality wheels can fail and that's fact. Any wheel can fail really. The issue here which fails more often? Imitators or innovators?

Well that all depends on how you use it, im sure 90% of the guys here will never track their car to even push the limit of their wheels. Daily driving im sure the reproduction wheels will do its job as good as the originals. Im not expecting my wheels to come apart going around a turn in my commute.

[hankster]

I think this is generally true for strength and cost:
gravity cast < low pressure cast < flow formed < forged

and this is generally true for wheel weight for a given load capacity:
forged < flow formed < low pressure cast < gravity cast

[hankster]

Originally Posted by phenom86

Well that all depends on how you use it, im sure 90% of the guys here will never track their car to even push the limit of their wheels. Daily driving im sure the reproduction wheels will do its job as good as the originals. Im not expecting my wheels to come apart going around a turn in my commute.

I look at it the other way around. I plan on autocrossing my car, but it is first and foremost my daily driver. As a daily driver stuff happens - pot holes, debris, raised sections, surrounded by curbs. Autocross courses are generally flat with cones as the only 'hazards'. So I bought wheels lighter than stock for autocross but strong enough for my personal DD peace of mind. If I were just autocrossing the car I would have bought even lighter cheaper wheels.

Maybe check into the manufacturing process and load capacity of the wheels along with the weight, cost, and looks, before deciding.

[ASSALBERT]

Originally Posted by hankster

I think this is generally true for strength and cost:
gravity cast < low pressure cast < flow formed < forged

and this is generally true for wheel weight for a given load capacity:
forged < flow formed < low pressure cast < gravity cast

i have to add that not all forged wheels are the same, companies like rays and bbs have superior forging techniques compared to other brands because their forged wheels are mold forged which utilizes presses which basically pounds the wheel into shape. pretty much all other forging companies out there use billet blanks and simply machine their wheels and call it a forged wheel. When you cut into the wheel like that you are essentially making it weaker by cutting the grain flow structure of the wheel. here is a good read: http://www.rayswheels.co.jp/catalog/201110forginge/

Originally Posted by phenom86

What do you guys consider "Fake" vs "Real"?.. every wheel are real, they are just rebranded for different markets.. If you consider Rotas fake which are "reproductions" of and they have been tested on track and in house to make sure they are safe. my friends in the philippines uses rotas for drifting, track and everyday usage.. One particular friend of mine uses custom rota wheels for his cars and he drifts the cars on rotas plus he told me he'd rather use those than expensive wheels.

Cefiro A31 RB25 17x9.5 ET (-10) 235 45 17


His M5 with custom wide wheels


If you guys do a search and look up wheels UK, you will find also wheels that have been reproduce for their market to fit their cars which those wheels are not available in our country. This has been an on going debate through all the forums.. here are pics of "REAL" wheels that broke.. then ask yourself how much you would pay for wheels.. Id buy Rotas any day, use the saved money for some expensive tires.

Enkie RPF-01


Advan TC-II


SSR


Custom HRE Wheels


Rays (notice Made in Japan)

besides that "custom hre" wheel, these wheels all were obviously subjected to some sort of hard IMPACT which caused the the wheels to break. The great thing about Volk wheels is that even in accidents, they dont break, they usually bend. Which is why they're so highly regarded in the racing industry because a bad off on the racetrack will crack a low quality wheel causing it to lose air, while the Volks will bend but still hold air to continue and finish the race.

now if you look at these replica wheels pictured, they didnt simply break because of an impact, they FAILED! The freakin faces of the wheels were sheared off the barrel for gods sake! Now tell me thats safe!

[diirk]

I found this article to be pretty interesting:
http://custompinoyrides.com/2012/03/...f-rota-wheels/

not that it really matters. Haters are going to hate.

[SubieNate]

Uh Oh, someone better notify GST that the Rota's they've been breaking records on in their Time Attack car are going to spontaneously explode if they don't switch them out!

I too used to buy into the "Rota sucks" bandwagon. Yes, they had some QC issues YEARS ago. But in the last few years their wheels have been consistently well made pressure cast pieces. Are they the lightest wheels you'll ever find? No. But unless you're Colin McRae or the next Schumacher I doubt it's going to matter all that much.

Just for kicks and giggles:



So Lotus must have used Rota as their manufacturer I guess. I've seen pics of wheels from all different manufacturers broken. It happens.

Me personally? I think a nice set of 1k of original design Enkeis or OZ's is a good compromise for us mortals.

Nathan

[LivingLegend]

Originally Posted by ASSALBERT

i have to add that not all forged wheels are the same, companies like rays and bbs have superior forging techniques compared to other brands because their forged wheels are mold forged which utilizes presses which basically pounds the wheel into shape. pretty much all other forging companies out there use billet blanks and simply machine their wheels and call it a forged wheel. When you cut into the wheel like that you are essentially making it weaker by cutting the grain flow structure of the wheel. here is a good read: http://www.rayswheels.co.jp/catalog/201110forginge/





besides that "custom hre" wheel, these wheels all were obviously subjected to some sort of hard IMPACT which caused the the wheels to break. The great thing about Volk wheels is that even in accidents, they dont break, they usually bend. Which is why they're so highly regarded in the racing industry because a bad off on the racetrack will crack a low quality wheel causing it to lose air, while the Volks will bend but still hold air to continue and finish the race.

now if you look at these replica wheels pictured, they didnt simply break because of an impact, they FAILED! The freakin faces of the wheels were sheared off the barrel for gods sake! Now tell me thats safe!

These Motorsports apparently do fine with Rotas. Just curious why they use them when they have a rep of falling apart.

In the world of Drifting, the Driftworks team is known to be probably the most successful drift team in Europe. Pictured above is their world-famous 720hp 2JZGTE-powered Driftworks Nissan S15 which runs on 18x12in Rota GTR-Ds.
Phil Morrison, owner of Driftworks, was asked by Speedhunters as to why he runs ROTA Wheels, even on his daily driver E46 BMW M3. Here’s what he had to say:

“Simple reason is because they are light, strong, and most importantly I didn’t have to go through a load of idiots telling me that I wouldn’t be able to, and shouldn’t fit 10′s all round.”

He goes on to say:

“Would I ever buy a set of TE37 even if Rota had never made these wheels? The answer is a simple no. They are massively overpriced for what they are, and the designs nearly 20 years old, so wah! Those who are mocking the fact I say they are strong need to do some research. We have used Rota wheels on our road cars, track cars and drift cars for 5 years. I’ve personally owned about 20 sets, and we have sold over 1000 wheels. We have never had nor heard of a failure that wasn’t due to a crash… I actually use this car for a lot more than daily driving. It’s my track car as well when I don’t want to drift the S15 I take this car to a local track or to the Nurburgring. It get’s some serious abuse, and deals with it all day long. I never thought I’d say it about a BMW, but I think it’s an awesome car, and will only let it go when a 997GT3RS makes it’s way into my life.”

Meanwhile, the 2011 British Drift Championship winner is another car running on ROTA Wheels – Matt Carter’s Falken S14.5, pictured on right. His teammate, Alan Green, pictured left, also runs on ROTAs.

In Racing, check out the 2009 Redline Time Attack Street National AWD Champions – Turn In Concepts, running 17×9 Rota DPT wheels.

Element Tuning Subaru STi on Rota DPT wheels reigning supreme on the 2011 US Time Trial Championships. The opponents? European muscle such as the V10 Lamborghini Gallardo Superlegerra and the Porsche 997 GT3, as well as American muscle in the form of race-tuned Dodge Vipers and Corvettes.

In the world of Drag Racing, the World’s Fastest Evolution VIII is the AMS Performance Drag EVO wearing ROTA Slipstream Wheels. 1,220 All-Wheel Horsepower, 671 ft/lbs of Torque, Best 1/4 Mile of 8.42 @ 171 mph, and a Standing Mph of 228 mph.
After reading this, are you still questioning how much horsepower ROTA Wheels can manage?

How about an Exotic Car wearing ROTA Wheels? Check out this TVR Sagaris rolling on Rota Boost wheels.

[jadewbj]

My issue is not as much with the fact that they are cheaper wheels it is the fact that they are PURPOSELY trying to make them look exactly like another respected wheel. Try and design something on your own.

As a designer it really annoys me when people steal other peoples designs. Just because it is an idea or concept not a tangible item that does not make it ok to steal it.

What really gets me is when people try to put the real wheels stickers and center caps in them to hide they bought cheap wheels. If all you care about is that they are affordable why go to the hassle of putting a different logo on them?

It's funny, back in the day people used to rock fake wheels on the down low. Now kids seem proud to be rocking their fake wheels.

[AJUSA.com]

Originally Posted by phenom86

One particular friend of mine uses custom rota wheels for his cars and he drifts the cars on rotas plus he told me he'd rather use those than expensive wheels.
=

My friends who drive in Formula D would say different If he had the choice and cost wasnt an object would he still choose the knockoffs?

This saying always rings true again and again. You get what you pay for.

[ASSALBERT]

yea, i already know there are many teams out there that run rotas on their race cars. In my last post i was simply trying to convey that replica wheels have more catastrophic failures due to lack of QC or structural integrity compared to that of authentic wheels. The most you will usually see when a "brand name" wheel breaks is that a spoke or two have cracked, instead of the whole face of the wheel being torn off.

keep in mind the main issue at hand here is the blatant copy of designs, not to mention companies that try to pass off wheels as the real thing by supplying stickers, *cough* varrstoen *cough* and even konig was dumb enough to put "rays eng" "forged" "monoblock" stampings on their ce28n copy and still has them for sale.