Performance in Road racing and auto X. what not to do

[Sccabrz192]

Trying to add SOME useful information to this otherwise useless thread...

Even though removing trunk junk and going to a track pipe from the OE cat-back DOES minutely move the CoG forward in vehicle (it's a 56/44 weight balance BTW, not "near perfect"... well, unless you come from the typically nose heavy land of FWD or AWD). you do get a 2 fold benefit from 1)reduced overall vehicle weight and 2)reduced Moment of Inertia which, from a road car perspective, outweighs the negative aspect of moving the CoG slightly in the wrong direction.

And if you are THAT worried about upsetting the balance... take out the junk and run a full tank of gas. the fuel tank is inboard of all the weight you reduced (still improving RMoI) and a full tank reduces slosh which is unfavorable in transitions.

[brzperformance.net]

Originally Posted by AZP Installs

I agree not corner balancing a car with coils can make it handle worse than stock.

-Mike Paisan


11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.
Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.
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Originally Posted by Sccabrz192

Trying to add SOME useful information to this otherwise useless thread...

Even though removing trunk junk and going to a track pipe from the OE cat-back DOES minutely move the CoG forward in vehicle (it's a 56/44 weight balance BTW, not "near perfect"... well, unless you come from the typically nose heavy land of FWD or AWD). you do get a 2 fold benefit from 1)reduced overall vehicle weight and 2)reduced Moment of Inertia which, from a road car perspective, outweighs the negative aspect of moving the CoG slightly in the wrong direction.

And if you are THAT worried about upsetting the balance... take out the junk and run a full tank of gas. the fuel tank is inboard of all the weight you reduced (still improving RMoI) and a full tank reduces slosh which is unfavorable in transitions.

so In otherwords. don't just start doing shit thinking its going to improve over the OEM quality.

Do it properly.

[brzperformance.net]

56/44 is pretty damn close to 50/50 and I do come from AWD. currently own a sti, had a few wrx's, another sti, and a few evos. Some were straight line prepped, some were auto X prepped. and pulling the spare tire and removing a snorkel never aided any benefit to be worth my time.

[Propaganda]

Originally Posted by brzperformance.net

pulling the spare tire and removing a snorkel never aided any benefit to be worth my time.

Because that what....adds up to 50lbs? Yes in theory, a lighter car should run a faster time, but 9 times out of 10 it won't if there isn't a skilled enough driver behind the wheel. The junk in the trunk is such a miniscule amount of weight, comparatively.

That being said, some of my friends that have old miatas need to have someone ride along (ADDING 120+lbs depending on who), because it helps to better balance the car and they can run faster times. It doesn't work all the time, but sometimes it's needed (depending on the course).


Also, you're saying that if I fold the rear seats down, it'll help move the CoG lower and make my car more balanced? (sorry, I had to)

[mla163]

Originally Posted by Propaganda

Also, you're saying that if I fold the rear seats down, it'll help move the CoG lower and make my car more balanced? (sorry, I had to)

Actually, I know a lot of national level drivers that will do this. The benefits are miniscule, but it's a step in the the right direction. The same way that a few lbs of weight savings may not be directly measurable in lap times but is the right move. Ounces add up to pounds and that has a huge impact on a low power car like this one.

[track_warrior]

Thats why we corner balance and align!! I feel a huge difference at the track with the light weight reduction i have done to my car, it feels more planted and agile and i feel i have a faster corner exit speed as well. Light weight will always be a good thing no matter how you do it imo.

[ABQautoxer]

It's ok not knowing things, especially in the quirky autocross world were we'd take a poor balanced car weight wise front to rear if it means we can remove 50-100lbs every time. It's not ok to try to give advise not understanding this things and potentially misinforming those that don't know what you are saying is wrong.

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by jamal

That's what I've been saying this whole time!

I know I'm very unconventional sometimes. Can't be afraid to try something unusual in the quest for speed.

Ok time to make this thread useful. Here's what I did to upset the balance of my car. I will warn you however I dropped 8 seconds a lap so don't try this unless you want to go faster!

Here is the weight of the stuff I removed but keep in mind I may have added substantial weight with bigger wheels and tires, and the suspension could be slightly heavier (never had a chance to weight them but can tell when installing).

OEM FT86 front caliper + bracket + pads = 13.4 lbs. OEM Rotor 17lbs = 30.4 lbs
VS.
OEM STI Brembo Caliper + Pads = 13.6 lbs. Plus DBA front rotors 19.5 lbs = 33.1 lbs (gained +2.7)
OEM battery= 29.6 lbs.( The Battery I used PC680 weighs less than 15 pounds) so saved 14.6 lbs
Rear seat bases =6.2 lbs.
Rear seat back (1-piece)= 15.0 lbs.
OEM spare tire with liner foam= 25.8 lbs.
Front floor mats= 2.4 lbs.
Rear floor mats= 0.8 lbs
Cup holder insert= 0.4 lbs
OEM trunk tools, jack, tow hook= 5.8 lbs.
OEM trunk rug/liner mat= 2.4 lbs.
Owner's Manual= 2.8 lbs.
OEM catback exhaust =38.4lbs (had a small dump pipe about 5 lbs)

Dropped -106.9 lbs easily.

Oh I also removed the rear sway bar but not sure what that weighs.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by brzperformance.net

Are you assuming that every registered user is building a professional race car?

Originally Posted by brzperformance.net

Overall, it sounds like everone is building a straight race car and no one is driving them on the street.

You got it wrong twice.

If it's being driven on the street IT IS NOT A RACE CAR, IT IS A STREET CAR. It is possible to have a street legal race car and it is possible to have a race-legal street car, but BOTH will have a roll cage, a fire suppression system, a racing seat with a seat-back brace (or FIA homologated seat), SFI legal 5pt or 6pt belts and a window net.
A race car is something that is specific to racing. Something that competes in sanctioned racing events, something that is built to a specific rule set for a specific class.

People aren't building "professional" race cars... they're building "actual" race cars... you know, cars that actually fit that definition.

What the car is designed for (either by the manufacturer or the owner) is what defines it.

Rally car: (can a rally car be considered a race car?... Of course, because it is but RALLY is a specific kind of sanctioned racing).



Race Car:



STREET CAR (and a good looking subbie I might add!)

[ftc~brz]

Originally Posted by brzperformance.net

Overall, it sounds like everone is building a straight race car and no one is driving them on the street.

I'm leaving mine the way I got it, in the service bay at the dealership....BAAWHHAHAHA

I slay me!

[gmookher]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

I know I'm very unconventional sometimes. Can't be afraid to try something unusual in the quest for speed.

Ok time to make this thread useful. Here's what I did to upset the balance of my car. I will warn you however I dropped 8 seconds a lap so don't try this unless you want to go faster!

Here is the weight of the stuff I removed but keep in mind I may have added substantial weight with bigger wheels and tires, and the suspension could be slightly heavier (never had a chance to weight them but can tell when installing).

OEM FT86 front caliper + bracket + pads = 13.4 lbs. OEM Rotor 17lbs = 30.4 lbs
VS.
OEM STI Brembo Caliper + Pads = 13.6 lbs. Plus DBA front rotors 19.5 lbs = 33.1 lbs (gained +2.7)
OEM battery= 29.6 lbs.( The Battery I used PC680 weighs less than 15 pounds) so saved 14.6 lbs
Rear seat bases =6.2 lbs.
Rear seat back (1-piece)= 15.0 lbs.
OEM spare tire with liner foam= 25.8 lbs.
Front floor mats= 2.4 lbs.
Rear floor mats= 0.8 lbs
Cup holder insert= 0.4 lbs
OEM trunk tools, jack, tow hook= 5.8 lbs.
OEM trunk rug/liner mat= 2.4 lbs.
Owner's Manual= 2.8 lbs.
OEM catback exhaust =38.4lbs (had a small dump pipe about 5 lbs)

Dropped -106.9 lbs easily.

Oh I also removed the rear sway bar but not sure what that weighs.

how is handling without a rear sway?

[diirk]

Originally Posted by ftc~brz

I'm leaving mine the way I got it, in the service bay at the dealership....BAAWHHAHAHA

I slay me!

I just wanted to say that I like your sig. Almost bought that shirt, I opted for the "I want a tattooed president" shirt instead.

[Propaganda]

Originally Posted by gmookher

how is handling without a rear sway?

I know almost all of my friends that autocross with the early gen. miatas took theirs out because it does handle better (and they have ran faster times to prove it). But I'd like to know how it is for the toyobarus, as well!

[Draco-REX]