Subaru Coupe (version of FR-S/FT-86) Spotted Inside and Out! + New Interior Pic

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by xantonin

Because currently BOTH cars are the SAME car until all testing is conclusive and both manufacturers make their decisions.

Why is this so hard for everyone to understand?

The car is jointly being produced but each company gets their own model with their own variations... even in the testing because, well, the brands are going to want to test their models prior to subaru producing them.

Throughout development and various tests these cars may have been treated quite the same, but now that they are closing in on production versions variations will be present. And its the different details that have us all excited, relax and enjoy the ride.

[ryun84]

[PAImportTuner]

u-n-b-e-l-i-e-v-a-b-l-e

[xantonin]

Originally Posted by chulooz

The car is jointly being produced but each company gets their own model with their own variations... even in the testing because, well, the brands are going to want to test their models prior to subaru producing them.

Throughout development and various tests these cars may have been treated quite the same, but now that they are closing in on production versions variations will be present. And its the different details that have us all excited, relax and enjoy the ride.

That would be true if we were at that point yet. But from everything I've seen they aren't quiet there yet...

[chulooz]

Youve seen the outlines of badges on the cars... we are at that point.

[PAImportTuner]

Originally Posted by xantonin

That would be true if we were at that point yet. But from everything I've seen they aren't quiet there yet...

Your delusional. They are wrapping things up.

[andygee]

im just posting all these quotes so that a lot of questions can be answered

if you want to get a better idea of what the production car will look like,
look at the ft-86II that was shown in geneva. the fr-s shown at the
ny auto show is a true "concept" while the ft-86II is 90% production ready
in terms of "sheetmetal". the car your seeing there is 95% production ready,
its not a mule anymore. suspension testing is what your seeing there.
they will run about close to 10+k miles on the ring in less than a month.
in the process they will see and compare data recorded on fuji.
one of the things you might see during testing in future photos will be
different wheel and tire set ups. the car i was told if driven incorrectly
has a tendency to snap oversteer, the suspension will be tuned to over but
not to the point where the average driver won't be able to control it.
they will test whether calibration or the need for a wider set up for the
rear will help. that's where the rings multiple turns come in,
the track is great for data gathering.


Toyota or Subaru?
to answer the question what car is being tested, its both.
it is a joint venture project so any data recorded is shared and
analyzed by both companies and engineering depts.
when it was in fuji it was 50/50 that was testing not at the same time.
here at the ring its actually a little more toyota because they have a
larger base compared to subaru. the parts your seeing maybe subaru gift to the test.
again this is all for data collecting that's why I said you will see different
wheel and tire set ups before but more important everytime it goes out it will
have new suspension set ups as well. we've seen questions about the car styling.
toyota when the first concept bowed in late 2009 has been wind tunnel testing the
design as early as 2010. the first concept didn't meet standards. while it looked
great it wasn't slippery enough and produced a lot of noise. the data was given to
the designers and they came up with FT86II. the II like I said is what the actually
car will look like the most from a body panel standpoint.



during data testing we bring crates and crates filled with parts that we think will
benefit the car, that ranges from springs, shocks, wheels, tires, aero,
control arms, ecu, transmissions even engines. we have a full working garage at
the ring where we can remove and replace any piece we want to gather as much
data as possible. the cars final shakedown should be be done by summer.
aside from a tuning standpoint we are also able to stress test all
parts and disassemble after testing is done.


about the LA spy shots,.
t.m.s. is in torrance (l.a.), ca so its not a subaru...
there's more than one vehicle. this car has been all over u.s. gathering data and miles.


it has nothing to do with marketing buzz at all especially with toyota press imbargos.
there's more than one car. you happen to only see in it in germany and socal but there's
a prototype testing in very cold weather where there are no spy photographers and in japan.
the reason your seeing it in a socal freeway was for engine temp data gathering in severe
stop and go driving. you will see more spy photos when we bring it to the desert.
all these spy photos your seeing is because these are no longer mules but close to
pre-production to test for problems that we didn't see. all data recorded will be severly analyzed
way before it goes into any production car. also, to answer questions who is doing most of the testing,
just look at what cars are around the test, even down to the plates they're using. i'm seeing the ring
pictures just like you and those plates look very familiar. we don't have email or phone access to the
testers there but they're doing the same thing were doing stateside but a lot more fun. the socal plates
you saw like i said before are toyota motor distributor plates not subaru.
toyota is being very shy about how much work they're doing, which is a lot.
they've built a great car that just need a few things which they have in my reports.


actually the things that the car doesn't need (e.g. nav or leather, park assist etc...)
is not being added by t.m.m. but t.m.s. which is a distributor not manufacturing.
when a land cruiser goes to south africa they could care less about park assist.
t.m.m. will ask the distributor what they want and build a vehicle specific for their region
based on what the distributor thinks would sell. don't place too much blame with manufacturing
its the distributors that you need to get angry with. fyi: pwr seats and moonroofs won't
make it into the fr-s. they were also tinkering not having any pwr win/lks at all and making
everything manual but that was quickly shot down.


nope that is not the subaru version but still the toyota. i guess this isn't really confindential.
subaru is still working on their design and has taken all the aero data from
toyota to finalize their design. that's why you've seen two design concepts of
the FT and none from subaru. that's a pretty good spy shots because we didn't
spot them but we did see a few phones snapping away. regarding the steering wheel
that's not finalized but you will see a lot of sharing of parts that's available
currently to keep production costs low. the sti people were visiting and that is not a turbo FT/FR that's following it.

[TRDFantasy]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

Let's not nut swing Toyota, we all know everyone is little hurt about it being a joint venture and SOABlog somewhat discrediting Toyota.

Subaru:
chassis
suspension
engine
production assembly

Toyota
D4-S
Marketing/Advertising

Both Makers:
Exterior Styling
Testing, Data and Tuning

3rd party
Yamaha
Aisin

Do you have proof of any of this?

I'm sorry but I have to call BS on this info. Marketing and advertising will separately be done by Toyota and Subaru for each variant.

The platform is Subaru, but Toyota is doing much of the work on the rear differential and rear suspension. Also it is a FACT that Toyota has done a lot of work on the suspension, specifically the dampers. Akio Toyoda himself specifically requested that the car have very good dampers, and that the suspension be tuned in a specific way to handle corners very flat.

The engine is also a Subaru block, but heavily reworked by Toyota. Toyota developed the D4-S system for the engine, in co-operation with Yamaha doing the heads.

Subaru is helping a lot with tuning, testing, chassis balance, and a few other things here and there. Subaru didn't do much work with the engine or chassis. Toyota took an existing Subaru chassis and existing Subaru engine and reworked both. Toyota is still doing a lot of tuning, testing, and chassis balance in co-operation with Subaru.

Toyota is the project lead on this, with Subaru being a significant co-developer. Fact remains though that Akio Toyoda spearheaded and helped green-light this project. Fact also remains that the chief engineer is a Toyota engineer.

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by TRDFantasy

Do you have proof of any of this?

I'm sorry but I have to call BS on this info. Marketing and advertising will separately be done by Toyota and Subaru for each variant.

The platform is Subaru, but Toyota is doing much of the work on the rear 1 differential and rear suspension. Also it is a FACT that 2 Toyota has done a lot of work on the suspension, specifically the dampers. Akio Toyoda himself specifically requested that the car have very good dampers, and that the suspension be tuned in a specific way to handle corners very flat.

The engine is also a Subaru block, but 3 heavily reworked by Toyota. Toyota developed the D4-S system for the engine, in co-operation with 4 Yamaha doing the heads.

5 Subaru is helping a lot with tuning, testing, chassis balance, and a few other things here and there. Subaru didn't do much work with the engine or chassis. 6 Toyota took an existing Subaru chassis and existing Subaru engine and reworked both. Toyota is still doing a lot of tuning, testing, and chassis balance in co-operation with Subaru.

7 Toyota is the project lead on this, with Subaru being a significant co-developer. Fact remains though that 8 Akio Toyoda spearheaded and helped green-light this project. Fact also remains that the 9 chief engineer is a Toyota engineer.

you are spreading about as much speculation as him... prove the 9 bolded phrases please or be a rumor spreader. TRDfantasy... sounds fitting.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by andygee

the car i was told if driven incorrectly
has a tendency to snap oversteer, the suspension will be tuned to over but not to the point where the average driver won't be able to control it.
they will test whether calibration or the need for a wider set up for the
rear will help. that's where the rings multiple turns come in,
the track is great for data gathering.

Ouch... this is not a good thing to hear. If the FT86 is anything like the AP1 or even AP2 (Honda S2000), that could really be a handful if the driver is not careful. While the AP1 doesn't have traction control, and I fully expect the FT86 to have it, it'd really suck if you have to rely on traction control to save your behind. It'd also mean tracking the car at 10/10th would be a lot more dicey... Granted, it probably wouldn't make sense to track a fully stock FT86 in the first place, but if the tendency is there in the first place due to non-suspension related factors (weight distribution, CG, roll center, etc.), it'd really take a lot of suspension tuning to tame it, and really, I'm not sure if the behaviour can be entirely tamed.

IMO, suspension tuning is the one of the most important factor in a sports car because it can easily make or break the driving experience. I hope Toyota and Subie can really get this one right.

[PAImportTuner]

Guys be ready more photos should surface tomorrow.

[PAImportTuner]

Originally Posted by chulooz

you are spreading about as much speculation as him... prove the 9 bolded phrases please or be a rumor spreader. TRDfantasy... sounds fitting.

Not true, when I speculate you'll know the difference, trust me I'm more passionate and less vague.

The info I give I cannot explain like he does.

What I meant by marketing/advertising/hype is Toyota/Scion is going to these shows and conventions talking about the platform, the engine and how extravagant it's going to be, and how balanced it is. Subaru sits back and thinks if they like this wait til they see our version, better quality and... I won't finish that. Subaru has not publicly made it known about anything.

BUT today was a "show and tell" from Subaru/Fuji, TRD is lying or does not know a thing, trust me, I just got a second confirm not from my original source either. It's 3:02am here and I have no reason to make things up. :happy0180: Like I said more info should be out hopefully later on today.

[gt-jerome]

Originally Posted by RRnold

There is definitely something going on behind those trashbags...like something is trying to escape.

maybe there's toyota' staff hide behind those bags who take telemetry data ... (i hope my english is good for the joke...)

Could it be pieces for the intercooler of the turbo.... or just big STI lights ?

[Revenant]

The plastic mesh in the grill is exactly the same between the Germany and California mule. If these are, indeed, 95% production bodied vehicles, then that is at least one detail that would not be the same between the two. Whatever is testing in Germany, it's the same team testing here.

I see zero difference between the two cars, save for the tape jobs, aero, exhaust tips and wheels. Nothing of the body is different.

The mesh I mention is also of the large, overlapping style used by Five Axis (Toyota's go-to company for visually spicing up a production car into a concept). This, and the headlight shape, cause me to learn towards believing both mules we've seen are Toyota.