Unofficial - CEL/SL/Idle Issue List for FR-S/BRZ Owners

[pituala]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

If you look at the system, mechanically it's very simple. These types of valve timing systems are widely used by Subaru and Porsche (and maybe others) and from what I understand they are very successful with it.

What's missing in the drawing are the sensors for the crankshaft, timing cam and the ECU but the principle in it's operation is easy to understand; 1) the ECU commands a timing change by sending a signal to the oil control valve, 2) the oil control valve releases additional oil to hydraulically advance or retard the cam position, relative to the camgear 3) the ECU measures the change with sensor feedback. When the sensor input on the timing cam deviates from what the ECU is expecting, we get out lovely error code.

The amazing thing about the issue is that appears at random, both in which engines are affected and WHERE in the engine it happens. The different codes each represent a different cam:

P0016 Crankshaft Position Abnormality - (Bank 1=Passenger Side, Sensor A=Intake Cam)
P0018 Crankshaft Position Abnormality - (Bank 2=Drivers Side, Sensor A=Intake Cam)
P0017 Crankshaft Position Abnormality - (Bank 1=Passenger Side, Sensor B=Exhaust Cam)
P0019 Crankshaft Position Abnormality - (Bank 2=Drivers Side, Sensor B=Exhaust Cam)

My 1st theory for the root cause has to do with those oil passages in the block that go in-between the oil control valves and the cam gear. Either A) something is getting in there, B) something is being left behind or C) (in the cases multiple repair attempts have failed) the channel is blocked or barely passable to oil because of a defect in the casting process. If B&C are true, there may be problems with the casting process for this new engine (entirely plausible with it being so new), resulting in "bad" engine blocks.

A&B would explain why replacing all of these oil control valves and cam gears is working. Whatever is getting into in those channels is damaging these two parts so their replacement resolves the problem.

My 2nd theory for the root cause is there might be some sort of spring set that's faulty in either the cam gear, the oil control valve (or both) which return these critical parts into a middle or "neutral" position. If a spring malfunctioned then the system might be starting out in a state that's unacceptable to the ECU and that would also trigger the DTC

Yeah I get all that and I'm fully aware of how the CVT systems work as I've had much experince with them in a Nissan I used to own, but like you say unless something like a spring for oil valves is failing (seems unlikely to me unless there was a bad batch of metal, but that seems unlikely to me as well). If the oil passages are too narrow, then like I said before, why would it work fine for a certain random time then suddenly fail. And if it debree, gosh I gotta say how could something like loose casting flash not get caught at some point in the factory. All three possibilities seem unlikely when taking into account the "clean" factories that parts are built/assembled in.

The sensor idea is what seems most likely as I see electronics having a higher probability of failure as compared to something mechanical. Its hard to say as we're all just making educated speculations.

But hey, I could be completely wrong...

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by pituala

Yeah I get all that and I'm fully aware of how the CVT systems work as I've had much experince with them in a Nissan I used to own, but like you say unless something like a spring for oil valves is failing (seems unlikely to me unless there was a bad batch of metal, but that seems unlikely to me as well). If the oil passages are too narrow, then like I said before, why would it work fine for a certain random time then suddenly fail. And if it debree, gosh I gotta say how could something like loose casting flash not get caught at some point in the factory. All three possibilities seem unlikely when taking into account the "clean" factories that parts are built/assembled in.

The sensor idea is what seems most likely as I see electronics having a higher probability of failure as compared to something mechanical. Its hard to say as we're all just making educated speculations.

But hey, I could be completely wrong...

This is my best guess based on everything I've read. I've spent a lot of time working on cars and have done internal engine work in the past but I'm not an engineer.

The sensors are the most accessible components of everything they're replacing. If it was just electronics they wouldn't be taking apart the timing covers to get at those other components. I feel this has a mechanical root cause of some kind.

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by mact

Do you think it has anything to do with new engine metal "shavings" ?

those are pretty small particles so in my opinion in it's not likely, but it is possible?...

[01s0uljah]

Was just informed by my dealership and a tech at Subaru canada that a software flash will be available at the end of the month to resolve the CEL/Trac light issue.

[mact]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

those are pretty small particles so in my opinion in it's not likely, but it is possible?...

I heard from a few people that have already performed their first oil change that they have seen fine metal particles. I wonder if these particles are clogging up not the oil passage ways, but a metal screen of some sort at the OCV opening?

[pituala]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

This is my best guess based on everything I've read. I've spent a lot of time working on cars and have done internal engine work in the past but I'm not an engineer.

The sensors are the most accessible components of everything they're replacing. If it was just electronics they wouldn't be taking apart the timing covers to get at those other components. I feel this has a mechanical root cause of some kind.

Same here as far as engine building goes. And yeah I hear ya. It just goes to show you that just because it works in a computer program doesn't mean it works in the real world. I just hope they have a real and true fix for this, I hope my car doesn't smell like oil and coolant when I get it back, and I hope I can get them to put some goodies on my car at their expense.....lol

[pituala]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

those are pretty small particles so in my opinion in it's not likely, but it is possible?...

Has this only happened to people running the original oil, or have people that did oil changes have this problem too??? Has anyone asked this yet?

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by pituala

Has this only happened to people running the original oil, or have people that did oil changes have this problem too??? Has anyone asked this yet?

I changed my oil at 400 miles. At 1600 I got the CEL...

[jesperswe]

Originally Posted by 01s0uljah

Was just informed by my dealership and a tech at Subaru canada that a software flash will be available at the end of the month to resolve the CEL/Trac light issue.

Is this a reliable source, even if i got a Toyota it gotta be the same software? If that can be 100% confirmed i'll take my car back from the workshop before they rip her apart.
Not really sure thought if i'd enjoy driving with a crappy idle....

Can it all just be to bad programming in the ECU/ECM regarding the VVT part? We all know computers crash for no obvious reason
Could be possible also seeing some posts where they just changed the cam sprocket and ocv, and still got error code.
When they changed the ECM everything worked out? Maybe there's a new software in the new ECM?

[01s0uljah]

Yes from a reliable source. Confirmed with someone inside Subaru Canada and also with the dealership that currently has my car.

Im getting it back today WITH the CEL/TRAC light on, and will be getting a call when this flash is available.

[2000blk]

Got my car back yesterday after 3 weeks. Took it on a 750 mile road trip after picking it up, all seems to be good.

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by 01s0uljah

Yes from a reliable source. Confirmed with someone inside Subaru Canada and also with the dealership that currently has my car.

Im getting it back today WITH the CEL/TRAC light on, and will be getting a call when this flash is available.

450hp/tonne; could you please confirm?

[01s0uljah]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

450hp/tonne; could you please confirm?

?

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by 01s0uljah

?

450hp/tonne is a toyota engineer who has knowledge of the problem...

341-cel-check-engine-light-coming-on-any-reported-in-aus

...he piped in just long enough to tell us we didn't know what we were talking about (because we probably don't) and disappeared.

www (dot) 86forums (dot) com (dot) au