2nd gear synchro FIX- MT owners read this thread

[Synack]

Originally Posted by wootwoot

I am curious as well... but how do we find out? Where does concrete information come from regarding these issues? Seems like all we can do is look at the specs and make the most informed decision possible.

Usually just trial and error. There are a good bit of people that know what products are good and bad, and the unknown products will be used as well. We just have to wait for everyone's personal experiences and we can also benefit from other's past experienced with products they've used before.

[wheelhaus]

Originally Posted by wootwoot

I am curious as well... but how do we find out? Where does concrete information come from regarding these issues? Seems like all we can do is look at the specs and make the most informed decision possible.

There is no single magic answer, but there a lot of right answers that get debated. Going with something that's full synthetic from a well known brand (Redline, Mobil 1, Amsoil, Motul, etc) and you should be just fine. Engines can still grenade no matter what oil is in them, transmissions can still shear teeth and melt down; there really is NO guarantee, NONE. That's what warranties are for. The only advice I have for performance cars is to avoid cheap dino oils.

Debating numbers and comparing some of the harder to find oils or exotic stuff lis realy only for the OCD types that are obsessed with getting every possible last inkling of performance from their oils.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by wootwoot

I am curious as well... but how do we find out? Where does concrete information come from regarding these issues? Seems like all we can do is look at the specs and make the most informed decision possible.

With regard to oil, do the research. If you can get on the Bob the Oil Guy forum, you will have quite a lot of good info.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

There is no mystery to oil science, but a lot of lay people (me, for instance) have difficulty getting their heads around the basics.

Good luck.

[Synack]

Originally Posted by wheelhaus

There is no single magic answer, but there a lot of right answers that get debated. Going with something that's full synthetic from a well known brand (Redline, Mobil 1, Amsoil, Motul, etc) and you should be just fine. Engines can still grenade no matter what oil is in them, transmissions can still shear teeth and melt down; there really is NO guarantee, NONE. That's what warranties are for. The only advice I have for performance cars is to avoid cheap dino oils.

Debating numbers and comparing some of the harder to find oils or exotic stuff lis realy only for the OCD types that are obsessed with getting every possible last inkling of performance from their oils.

Well I'm curious to see what high powered solution can be come up with because I have no warranty

[jdzumwalt]

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=44&pcid=4

I run this in my race truck. I have a toyota R151 bolted behind it. Shifts pretty good and the trannie builder says its major pain in the ass because it suck to every gear in the box when he tear down the trannies.

Motor is a 350 hp with ultra High shock loads going through it.

[gmookher]

so what no one but me has coughed up the $20 a quart for this?

[michaelahess]

I'm tempted but still hesitant.....

[roddy]

Originally Posted by gmookher

so what no one but me has coughed up the $20 a quart for this?

I'm interested in trying it, but I really have no complaints with the lube in there now. As the temperature outside continues to drop, I'll be keeping a close eye on shift quality. If it starts to degrade, Pentosin is at the top of my list for a replacement, regardless of price (here it is $33/liter ).

[White64Goat]

Let me stir the pot (in a good way I hope) and let me tell you what I discovered in about 45 minutes worth of time this afternoon.

Subaru manual calls for "MG Gear Oil special II" or "other gear oil that meets API GL-3 or upgrade and SAE 75W-90 specifications".

From doing a little research at the API website I discovered that the GL-3 specification is "Inactive" meaning it has been superceded (or currently not in use). When did that occur? Well as far back as 1995 it seems, although API can bring specs. back it seems if need be. Everything I could find (2011 specs) still has GL-3 as "Inactive". So if the Subaru manual has "API GL-3 or upgrade", then GL-4 would be the next upgrade, meaning the Pentosin fits that status.

On the Pentosin site (CRP Automotive) it states that "Pentosin MTF 2 improves synchronization characteristics and was lowered to SAE 75W-80 for better fuel economy". (It used to be 75W-90 possibly?)

The difference between an 80 or 90 is probably not much unless you're planning on runnning the 24 hours of LeMans...........

Maybe this helps shed some light on this debate.

[Chee-Hu]

Interesting find.

[DYOLF26]

Originally Posted by gmookher

wonder no more:

eneos sustina, top choice
motul eco
I also like total and agip oils
in addition to factory toyota and subi 'sm' rated oils
these contain the most zddp and moly for our boxxers


I pass on the 'sn'

track day switch to german made castrol 0w-30

I work at a Toyota/Scion dealership in Kansas and the Toyota brand 0W20 oil we get comes in drums and says SN on the description. Why do you say you pass on the sn type? What does it mean?

[2forme]

I just ordered 3 qts of the Pentosin MTF2. It's started getting cooler here and that means 2nd gear knotchyness. I hope this fixes that.

[SubieNate]

Originally Posted by White64Goat

Let me stir the pot (in a good way I hope) and let me tell you what I discovered in about 45 minutes worth of time this afternoon.

Subaru manual calls for "MG Gear Oil special II" or "other gear oil that meets API GL-3 or upgrade and SAE 75W-90 specifications".

From doing a little research at the API website I discovered that the GL-3 specification is "Inactive" meaning it has been superceded (or currently not in use). When did that occur? Well as far back as 1995 it seems, although API can bring specs. back it seems if need be. Everything I could find (2011 specs) still has GL-3 as "Inactive". So if the Subaru manual has "API GL-3 or upgrade", then GL-4 would be the next upgrade, meaning the Pentosin fits that status.

On the Pentosin site (CRP Automotive) it states that "Pentosin MTF 2 improves synchronization characteristics and was lowered to SAE 75W-80 for better fuel economy". (It used to be 75W-90 possibly?)

The difference between an 80 or 90 is probably not much unless you're planning on runnning the 24 hours of LeMans...........

Maybe this helps shed some light on this debate.

The 80 max viscosity explains the improved low temp synchro behavior but would worry me if used hard and hot. The gear oil not only works with the syncros but lubricates the shaft bearings, if it's not thick enough to maintain a proper film on these bearings the syncros are going to be the last of your worries.

It may work fine, but I think it warrants some serious thought/research.

Nathan

[Esoteric]

ok ok... It's data you want!

So, I have been waiting to get some used oil analysis back before I go posting. Sad thing is, as a bussiness I have to be a little more formal when I post, so I hold off of "fun" posts... Boring really, but I look like a jerk if its not all on the up and up.

Anyhow, let me just contribute our findings after several track days and thousands of miles with the new redline product I have been waiting for... MT85. What they advertise as being the "redline of synchromesh" if you read between the lines.
We also have the Pentosin (good call by our friend above) as well as BG Snycroshift II (the synthetic version).

So far, the redline has seen the most diverse conditions (ambient between 48 and 95 degrees Fahrenheit) and everything from 250 miles constant highway, city and of course several hundred track miles at full blast.

The combination of the perrin shift bushing and redline are SUPURB. The stock shift knob works a whole hell of a lot better and no more odd grinds! I still prefer our prototype shift knob (lighter and taller than OEM).

More to come... UOA etc, etc (sorry if this is hard to read, I typed it on my phone and was eager to contribute)