Scion FR-S / Toyota FT-86 / Subaru with Aggressive Body & High Wing! + VIDEO!

[Chokonen888]

Hmmm, I still think the headlights/tails are what we'll see on the Subaru variant. Both seem too different from the Toyota/Scion concepts and remind me more of Subaru styling. Oh well, I'll see what version looks best and go with that.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

Without being too rude, with easily over 10 years in the industry, common sense tells me it cannot be no lighter than that. The latest Miata is almost 2600lbs, it's smaller than the FT and does not have the same amount of windows, seats, smaller trunk, roof, b and c pillars, more safety standards and safety concerned areas needing reinforcements because of being a 2+2. The FT86 overall has more metal and glass. Throw on the bodykit and or have the turbo model and your pushing 3000+. That's why I stress that the NA model push at least a non-overrated 205-210hp to the crank, which is kinda farfetched for a non-turbo Subaru engine.

10' Miata @ ~2600lbs
Wheelbase (in) 91.7
Track, front (in) 58.7
Track, rear (in) 58.9
Length (in) 157.3
Width (in) 67.7
Height (in) 49.0

FT86 Estimated 2900lbs NA model. No turbo, no bodkit.
Wheelbase: 101.18 inches
Length: 163.78 inches
Width: 69.29 inches
Height: 48.19 inches

11' Scion TC @ 3100lbs
Wheel base: 106.3 in.
Width: 70.7 in.
Height: 55.7 in.
Length: 174.0 in.

10' RX8 @ ~3100lbs
Wheelbase (in) 106.4
Length (in) 175.6
Width (in) 69.7
Height (in) 52.8

10' Genesis 2.0T @ ~3500lbs
Wheelbase: 111.0 in
Length: 182.3 in.
Width: 73.4 in.
Height: 54.5 in.

I pray that you don't hit yourself after seeing the final weight... but that can be said to myself. Cuz, I'm feeling 2600~2700 without problem. But that's without facts or proof.

edit: add to that
SCION VP stated

The AE86 didn’t rely on brute horsepower… but instead a remarkable combination of a lightweight design… manageable power and great balance. It made its way into almost every genre of racing from grip to drift… and from the circuit to mountain roads.

Although this concept arrives here more than 25 years later… and doesn’t share a single common part… the spirit and the heritage of the AE86 has trickled down into every single detail of this FR-S Concept. The goal was to create an authentic rear-wheel drive sports car… with compelling style… exceptionally balanced performance and handling… flexible utility… and surprising MPG. I know the FR-S Concept will achieve all of that.

Now, let's get serious, 2800lbs won't get that "exceptionally balanced performance and handling."

[LionZoo]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

Without being too rude, with easily over 10 years in the industry, common sense tells me it cannot be no lighter than that. The latest Miata is almost 2600lbs, it's smaller than the FT and does not have the same amount of windows, seats, smaller trunk, roof, b and c pillars, more safety standards and safety concerned areas needing reinforcements because of being a 2+2. The FT86 overall has more metal and glass. Throw on the bodykit and or have the turbo model and your pushing 3000+. That's why I stress that the NA model push at least a non-overrated 205-210hp to the crank, which is kinda farfetched for a non-turbo Subaru engine.

10' Miata @ ~2600lbs
Wheelbase (in) 91.7
Track, front (in) 58.7
Track, rear (in) 58.9
Length (in) 157.3
Width (in) 67.7
Height (in) 49.0

FT86 Estimated 2900lbs NA model. No turbo, no bodkit.
Wheelbase: 101.18 inches
Length: 163.78 inches
Width: 69.29 inches
Height: 48.19 inches

11' Scion TC @ 3100lbs
Wheel base: 106.3 in.
Width: 70.7 in.
Height: 55.7 in.
Length: 174.0 in.

10' RX8 @ ~3100lbs
Wheelbase (in) 106.4
Length (in) 175.6
Width (in) 69.7
Height (in) 52.8

10' Genesis 2.0T @ ~3500lbs
Wheelbase: 111.0 in
Length: 182.3 in.
Width: 73.4 in.
Height: 54.5 in.

The Miata is a convertible and convertibles are generally heavier due to their use of bracing in non-optimal areas to try to gain back stiffness lost due to the lack of a stressed roof. Also, Mazda engineers are on record as stating that the current NC Miata is heavier because it shares an architecture with the RX-8.

The Scion tC has a heavy FWD architecture. The RX-8 has a heavier than usual body because of the giant gapping hole in the center from the suicide doors. The engineers have needed to reinforce other areas to get back the stiffness.

I believe that Toyota has too much riding on their lightweight marketing to release a pig heavy car. Also, other components of the car can be engineered to be lighter since the car doesn't have a lot of power compared to other modern sports cars. In my opinion, the car will not weigh more than 2800 pounds.

One of the best correlations with sports car weight is front brake size. The front rotors on the prototype look like they're about 11.5". The NC Miata has a 11.4" front rotor and is about 2500 pounds (in softtop guise). The S2000, which was a little over 2800, had 11.8" rotors, but was relatively underbraked for a modern sports car. The RX-8, 370Z, Genesis etc. all have rotors in the 12.6"+ range.

[celicajim]

2000-2005 Celica had 10.8" front rotors (275mm) and weighed 2470lb (1120kg)...

[PAImportTuner]

Originally Posted by LionZoo

The Miata is a convertible and convertibles are generally heavier due to their use of bracing in non-optimal areas to try to gain back stiffness lost due to the lack of a stressed roof. Also, Mazda engineers are on record as stating that the current NC Miata is heavier because it shares an architecture with the RX-8.

The Scion tC has a heavy FWD architecture. The RX-8 has a heavier than usual body because of the giant gapping hole in the center from the suicide doors. The engineers have needed to reinforce other areas to get back the stiffness.

I believe that Toyota has too much riding on their lightweight marketing to release a pig heavy car. Also, other components of the car can be engineered to be lighter since the car doesn't have a lot of power compared to other modern sports cars. In my opinion, the car will not weigh more than 2800 pounds.

Well it is a mainly a Subaru they are PIGS. Understeering, pushing forward in corner pigs. This car is said to be off a modified Subaru chassis. Subaru always has safety in mind which adds weight. Current on the market car specs can give a good idea on what to expect of the car to weigh in at. Here's another one.

11' Fiesta @ ~2550lbs
wheelbase 98
length 160.1
Width 66.8
height 58

I know you really can't compare a Fiesta to it but that's one heavy car regardless for it's size. You add to the above bigger body panels/flares, bigger engine, bigger brakes, bigger wheels, bigger exhaust, 6spd, driveshaft, rear end. That's 300+lbs

Unless they are using hallow sways, aluminum driveshaft, alum. suspension arms(not stamped steel), aluminum hood, trunk and roof skin than I don't see how it's possible.

[xantonin]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

Without being too rude, with easily over 10 years in the industry, common sense tells me it cannot be no lighter than that. The latest Miata is almost 2600lbs, it's smaller than the FT and does not have the same amount of windows, seats, smaller trunk, roof, b and c pillars, more safety standards and safety concerned areas needing reinforcements because of being a 2+2. The FT86 overall has more metal and glass. Throw on the bodykit and or have the turbo model and your pushing 3000+. That's why I stress that the NA model push at least a non-overrated 205-210hp to the crank, which is kinda farfetched for a non-turbo Subaru engine.

10' Miata @ ~2600lbs
Wheelbase (in) 91.7
Track, front (in) 58.7
Track, rear (in) 58.9
Length (in) 157.3
Width (in) 67.7
Height (in) 49.0

FT86 Estimated 2900lbs NA model. No turbo, no bodkit.
Wheelbase: 101.18 inches
Length: 163.78 inches
Width: 69.29 inches
Height: 48.19 inches

11' Scion TC @ 3100lbs
Wheel base: 106.3 in.
Width: 70.7 in.
Height: 55.7 in.
Length: 174.0 in.

10' RX8 @ ~3100lbs
Wheelbase (in) 106.4
Length (in) 175.6
Width (in) 69.7
Height (in) 52.8

10' Genesis 2.0T @ ~3500lbs
Wheelbase: 111.0 in
Length: 182.3 in.
Width: 73.4 in.
Height: 54.5 in.

Uhmm.. why are you comparing this car to the Scion tC?

Originally Posted by celicajim

2000-2005 Celica had 10.8" front rotors (275mm) and weighed 2470lb (1120kg)...

This.

If anything, the FT-86 is a RWD Celica.

Now, with your expert experience, how much weight do you think a RW drive train will add if you took a Celica base of 2500 lbs?

[celicajim]

Originally Posted by Semper

Notice the outline in the middle of the hood. I don't think this was noticeable in any of the photos.

Compare with MkII hood lines.

[xantonin]

Originally Posted by celicajim

Compare with MkII hood lines.

Interesting, but the front bumper seems to have FR-S lines too.

[iff2mastamatt]

Originally Posted by Semper

couple of pics of the tail lights. Not much to see.

Attachment 1851

Attachment 1852

At least there are LEDs.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

Well it is a mainly a Subaru they are PIGS. Understeering, pushing forward in corner pigs. This car is said to be off a modified Subaru chassis.

You've gotta give a reference to what you're talking about because you KEEP bringing this up. That was a rumor over a year ago. Its now confirmed to be its own chassis design from the ground up. FFS, Subaru even showcased it!

FYI, typical Subbies are understeering pushers because of the AWD system, with the bulk of the weight in the front sitting ahead of the front axle. Edit: Researched myself and found myself wrong(concerning the FT-86's front weight). That being said, this chassis is specifically designed for an FR setup, and the majority bulk of the front weight is not so far forward to make it front heavy. They can't state that the engine sits far back near the middle and then do the opposite....ok they could, but they won't.

I would think 10 years in the biz and you'd be able to ascertain that much.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=982

there's the link to the thread concerning the chassis

[OldSkoolToys]

As lionzoo stated earlier about Rotor Size and vehicle weight...can anymore guesstimate the rotor size there? I'm well aware this is just a 'skeletal' promotion display, but hell, it doesn't hurt to try.

Those are probably the same 17in Enkei's on the current prototype.

[Fly Guy]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

As lionzoo stated earlier about Rotor Size and vehicle weight...can anymore guesstimate the rotor size there? I'm well aware this is just a 'skeletal' promotion display, but hell, it doesn't hurt to try.

Those are probably the same 17in Enkei's on the current prototype.

I might have done it wrong, but I calculated the rotor to be 9". Someone should check to see if I did that right.

[Traum]

Is this the rear wheel? The rear rotor would obviously be smaller.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

As lionzoo stated earlier about Rotor Size and vehicle weight...can anymore guesstimate the rotor size there? I'm well aware this is just a 'skeletal' promotion display, but hell, it doesn't hurt to try.

Those are probably the same 17in Enkei's on the current prototype.

Even line on the side profile is the same. Look at the read fender of the skeleton concept. It has a line across like wider hip.