2nd gear synchro FIX- MT owners read this thread

[BMWDavid]

Originally Posted by 2forme

How many quarts does the tranny take?

Its right about 3 quarts. Just fill until oil is level with fill hole.

[RedLeader]

Originally Posted by gmookher

I hear ya.

Drive mine. what a difference. Butter as opposed to a rifle bolt action.

I truly hated and dreaded second gear with cold fluid. Not anymore

If you think it will hurt to try it don't do it. Live with notchy second...

How cold are we talking about? Like <60F or <40F? I ask because even in the winter here it only gets down to maybe 50F or so, and that's with the windchill. If this syncro problem is an issue at COLD temps, then I won't worry about it (for myself at least) until I go to a colder climate, but if this is an issue at COOL temps, I may have to remember this for the winter, when it arrives.

[gmookher]

Originally Posted by BMWDavid

This is also my biggest dislike about my BRZ. Second gear is a royal pain in the butt until the trans gets some heat into it. Was not looking forward to fall and winter since it would take even longer to get some heat into the trans.

I'm going to take your word and order some of this Pentosin MTF2. It does meet all the specs as stated by Subaru.

No guys you dont understand, its better in EVERY gear, not just second.
You want the BRZ to feel as nice as the BMW stick feels. herein lies the answer.

There is no warm up anymore, just like there isnt on other cars in my stable.

It has magically made 2nd gear a complete non issue.

Just one of you try it, and post your results here

I have run the pentosin hard, and can attest to its heat cycling capacity. BMW doesnt fill their M cars with crap, I am dissappointed in Subaru/scion for their choice of oils, clearly spreadsheet driven since they know most enthusiasts will change that out asap.

Today I do the rear diff, using a Motul 300. yum.

[zoomzoomers]

So you recommend Motul 300 for the rear diff. What about for AT's? What do you recommend?

[ft86Fan]

I'm little concern with using 75W-80 when the manual says to use 75W-90 for the tranny. Would it be too thin for track use?

[rice_classic]

"Full of Hot Air."

It's all so clear now.

[mattles]

as a driver of primarily AISIN-equipped cars, I can say that never has one of my cars been run on GM Synchro, Penn, nor this Pentosin.

Without a proper UOA for any of the oils discussed, its somewhat pointless to compare them as to whats best for our cars. Im hoping someone with more miles than me will step up and see what blackstone labs has to say about usage of different oils in this transmission.

[gmookher]

Originally Posted by ft86Fan

I'm little concern with using 75W-80 when the manual says to use 75W-90 for the tranny. Would it be too thin for track use?

you dont actually actually think..

because an oil is rated thicker it protects better? this is not 1975 anymore, oil tech has changed No I dont mean to be rude but its really not that simple, unless you elect to see it that way

you car runs 0w-20, and by your logic you'd need thicker oil for real protection right? many 0w-20s out protect 5w-20 and ow and 5w-30s too
now there are guys on this board using valvoline and castrol titanium. sorry that way out of spec-nothing could be further from our subie or toyota oils, but if you go by SAE they think they are using the right oil. FAIL. thats 0w-20 but the wrong oil for this motor, no moly, no zinc, nothing.

Sorry high tech oils protect better than lower tech oils and so ling as youre within Kinematic v range, going by SAE rating alone is plain noob.

all you skeptics-look I dont balme you, if I did not know better or understand oils, I'd not use a oil that at first glance appears to not be right , you should keep your factory fill, and enjoy 2nd gear as you have it. meanwhile bing yourself up to speed on what this oil is suppose to do. this isnt a hypoid gear application. learn and dig deeper into understanding the lube!

I will enjoy mine my way. wait till you find the unobtanium toyota then let me know if fresh factory fill is better. I'm a betting man, I bet it wont be.

as they say YMMV, until you understand what EP and FM additives are and the difference between ester and hydro based oils...

I will both stand by my research and finding and usage of this superior 80weight oil, and enjoy the benefits of my aisin shifting as sooth as the getrags I own. and that says volumes, for those of you who own those trannys too.

in this instance a UOA is useless, what you need is a VOA of pento vs the factory fill. youre not trying to match the factory formula, youre trying to exceed its wear and flow properties, and I have.

/end of thread, and yeah youre welcome to those of you who try it or buy it.

[Jamifra]

what about Red line Lightweight Shockproof?


this stuff is really popular down here in Puerto Rico for evo sti/wrx trannys

[RedLeader]

Originally Posted by gmookher

/end of thread, and yeah youre welcome to those of you who try it or buy it.

Since you've completely ignored my question: how cold are you saying this syncro issue is actually happening? Like actually cold, or just while the tranny is "cold" meaning it hasn't been running for a while?


Sent from...somewhere?

[BMWDavid]

Originally Posted by Kestrel

Since you've completely ignored my question: how cold are you saying this syncro issue is actually happening? Like actually cold, or just while the tranny is "cold" meaning it hasn't been running for a while?


Sent from...somewhere?

Let me get my two cents in. My BRZ even at 75-80 degree ambient has a very hard second gear issue. I have to drive car a at least 5 miles before it settles down and shifts nicely.

I'm going to try the Pentosin MTF. It is a GL4 and 75W-80 should be fine. In fact gear oil viscosity is shown at 2X actual thickness. That is...75W-90 is actually 37.5W-45 in engine oil equiv.

So the 75W-80 is a 37.5W-40. Not much difference from a 45 weight to a 40 weight.

[gmookher]

Per my first post the symptom of notchy second gear is more a fluid thing than a gear thing below 100f

The resolution for cold synchro fluid is fluid that flows better when cold that doesn't compromise shear strength and film.

[ft86Fan]

gmookher, I wonder what engine oil you recommend then if you don't like Pennzoil or Castrol Edge Titanium 0W-20?

[rice_classic]

So has it been explained yet why "feeling" my car shift into gear is a bad thing? (Somewhat rhetorical).

With the stock fluid I never felt a crunch, not even on a 45 degree morning. Shifting fine. You are supposed to feel shift. As you move the shifter into the gear you should have an initial feeling of resistance then engagement (Synchro -> Collar Teeth). On this transmission with our triple synchros on 1st-3rd you feel the synchros more when things are cold and at lower rpms.

All I'm trying to say is that just because you "feel" your transmission doesn't mean it isn't doing exactly what it's designed to do or how it designed to function or that the longevity is at all affected.

I'm also weary about using an oil that was never designed for Aisin boxes. At least the GM/Pennzoil stuff (and even Honda MTL) is designed for Aisin boxes. We can definitively state that the OEM fluid is designed for this box or this box is designed to accept the OEM fluid. The fluid isn't in the transmission just for synchros and gear engagement and a barrier between the gear teeth, it's primary function is properly lubricating the bearings.

Here's another thing to consider: I can directly affect the lifespan of my synchros by how I drive (easy on shifts, double clutching during everyday driving etc) but my driving has less effect on the bearings. The bearing lifespan is directly affected by the quality of the fluid.

When considering alternate fluids outside of OEM, please consider all the parts in the tranny.

Example: Honda MTL is very thin, but the reason is the countershaft/mainshaft design act as a pump to force the fluid through very small passages inside the shafts to internally lubricate these very very small needle bearings. Using a gear oil (like a 75w-90 GL5) results in a fluid that is too thick (only by a little) and doesn't work inside the box as designed. So shifting feels good, but the bearings are subsequently dying.

Please consider the bigger picture.