I didn't like the AT and I'm trying to understand why

[Jedi1]

Odd that you asked this question today of all days. I just took the FRS into the dealer this morning. I had a break from my current tour about 4 weeks ago and took the car out for a day of serious driving.
About 10 minutes into my second run, the transmission started shifting itself from 3rd to 4th when I had not called for an upshift. In a straight line, not a huge deal. In a braking zone when you are expecting some engine braking to aid turn in, HUGE DEAL! My dealer is consulting with Toyota regarding whether this is a heat related fail safe or ecu/pm issue. If it is a heat based fail safe I have asked to question whether or not adding a quality trans cooler will effect our warranties. I'll let everyone on here know the response as soon as I get an answer.

[M-17]

Originally Posted by fiveoneoh

wow, first of all I am surprised to see so many great responses, makes me feel welcome =))

Thanks everyone your perspectives on driving the automatic. It seems that for the most part based on most of these responses, the true spirit of the AT only comes alive on the racetrack or otherwise aggressive driving. I would be concerned that for DD it might be too boring.

^did you buy both?! Driving the AT, what specifically about it may you realize it did not "suck"?

Ha, I wish I could buy both.
First thing first, I'd suggest that you try out both the auto and manual of either BRZ/FRS of your liking (if you haven't yet). That will be the only way to make your ultimate final decision.

Okay and as for the auto, it came more to a surprise to me on how well it actually could dish out in short bursts in the corners. I'd say it never really failed to keep up or, better yet it, how it continuously strife with itself around the course in a good way (much better than most autos I've driven in the past). Also just to add, I'm not really a fan of the paddle shift, but its probably because I'm not accustomed it. I would prefer that the paddles be mounted on the steering column than the steering wheel itself.
In addition I've also got to drive the auto on the streets and thought it was still a great car for daily driving. I know personally that there will be days when I'm going to need something simple to drive when I'm injured or when I'm not in good condition to drive a manual. But that's up to me decide on whether to suck it up and deal with that situation when it arises. So an auto was still a breath of fresh air when driving it compared to other automatics. It reassured me that there is in fact for fun to be had with the automatic.
Anyway, after getting to drive it around through traffic it seemed simple enough, but adding a little flare on an open road or twistys, as most would know by it, it still left a good impression on me. However as I stated before, the auto doesn't have that extra spark/bonus that you get from a manual though.




Every driver has their own personal preference. I don't really believe that there is nothing wrong in driving an auto or manual. The chippiness in debating over which transmission is better will never have a 100% correct answer. I'm sure we can all agree, but I know that I myself is happy that Subaru & Toyota had even made this particular car for the mass of various car enthusiasts to own and enjoy, in my humble opinion.

[RYU]

Originally Posted by Jedi1

Odd that you asked this question today of all days. I just took the FRS into the dealer this morning. I had a break from my current tour about 4 weeks ago and took the car out for a day of serious driving.
About 10 minutes into my second run, the transmission started shifting itself from 3rd to 4th when I had not called for an upshift. In a straight line, not a huge deal. In a braking zone when you are expecting some engine braking to aid turn in, HUGE DEAL! My dealer is consulting with Toyota regarding whether this is a heat related fail safe or ecu/pm issue. If it is a heat based fail safe I have asked to question whether or not adding a quality trans cooler will effect our warranties. I'll let everyone on here know the response as soon as I get an answer.

I would have guessed the same thing as you. Though, if they kept the converter lockup engaged, logic tells me that would reduce the heat instead of auto shifting? Perhaps if they forced it below a certain rpm... My buddy's e90 M3 gets trans temp warning lights often at the track. I'll ask him how BMW handles it.

Thanks for the great feedback! This is good to know. Please keep us updated. I'm inclined to get a trans cooler just for safety and longevity's sake. I hope there are already OEM fittings to piggyback off of.

I'm with you on the geeky nerdy thing. I've driven an "analog" car for many many years. I'm ready for something else. I'm most curious about how good the trans ecu is. The learning capability and adaptability of my old Porsche trans was quite impressive (before they went tiptronic) so I know automatic Torque Converter trans have come a long way.

[fiveoneoh]

Originally Posted by Jedi1

Pretty much every post in this thread should end with "for me" or "in my opinion", mine included. This is not a black and white issue. There are grey areas within this debate that can only be settled by your personal prefference. I tried to lay out exactly what "I" like about the auto. Hope it made sense to those that took the time to read it.

Yes, I read all your responses carefully; seems like you and a few others (sorry i didn't give shout outs to everyone) were able to get right to the heart of the matter - not a mt vs at debate, but instead how can i extract a more pleasurable driving experience from the AT.

I full well acknowledge that I don'[t know or even understand all the capabilities of this transmission and that is what I was looking to learn here. I'll probably PM some of you guys to ask more questions if you don't mind.

[Jedi1]

Looking forward to PM's about this or anything else to do with Performance Driving. It's what I do!

[RYU]

apologies again if this is slightly OT. To be honest this is the first thread i've read on here regarding the AT that is of much use. I appreciate it!

I'm curious on how smart the auto-rev match and downshifting algorithm is. For example, going into a tight turn slowing down from a 110mph straight i'll likely be hard on the brakes and about to engage 2nd gear to use some engine braking deep, perhaps to rotate the car (or something like this). How smart is the downshifting algorithm here? Will it not allow downshifting even if it knows for sure it will cause an over-rev situation? This is a common mistake with beginners with manuals or even a mis-shift situation. Or is it a lazy downshift where it will not downshift until it knows you're well into the safe zone speed and rpm wise? This is a complicated algorithm so i'm wondering if they got it right or do they play it conversative?

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

[Guff]

If your downshift is so that the car would over rev, the Trans will not allow it, instead it will beep a few times letting you know that the shift was not accepted and you will have try to downshift again after the revs fall a bit more.

With a system like this, the driver is more likely to learn where the proper downshift point is...

[Jedi1]

Exactly what Guff said. The real beauty of this transmission is that it will allow a downshift and rev match at the top of the rpm range. If you are dropping from 3rd to 2nd and the car needs to rev match to 7000 in order to give you that gear, it will do it. Like Guff stated, it will not allow an over rev though.

The other amazing thing I have been exploring is the ability to downshift mid turn with a ton of steering dialed in without upsetting the balance of the chassis. While I don't recommend this to those without quite a bit of high performance driving experience, the fact that this Transmission is capable of this is a testament to how amazing the shift algorithms are. I've also thrown the car into some fairly large 3rd gear drifts and in transitioning from the initial drift into the next corner I called for 2nd in order to keep the momentum and wheel spin up. No drama at all. Just shift, modulate the throttle and keep it sideways. Ask for a gear up or down and its just there. No odd weight shifting with the chassis. No loss of momentum. Just good things! I am blown away. Now, where's that extra 100 hp? : )

Oh yeah. The top of third is 91-93ish mph. If 110 mph is in your future, so is 4th gear! lol.

[serialk11r]

On topic (as opposed to the norm): Final drive won't fix the problem of the AT being slower. The problem is also not the transmission sapping too much power. The problem is that you have the same number of gears but more widely spaced. Increase final drive, you'll get more acceleration in first gear/second gear, and then the car runs out of breath after you're done with 2nd gear because the rpm drop is much larger.

[Jedi1]

So, what you're saying is somehow only the first two gears will be affected by a rear end gear change?

[RYU]

Thanks for your responses Guff and Jedi1! I'm very excited about this transmission.

serialK - if you shorten the final drive then the effective "distance" between each gear is also shortened. The final drive affects all gears.

[Jedi1]

I understand the car has limited HP and TQ and as you go higher into the gears the torque multiplication will fall off from a seat of the pants stand point. But the final drive will absolutely have an affect on each and every gear.

If I decide to set the car up for STX class autocross comp, I'm going with a 16" wheel option and at least 3/4" less tire height for the gearing advantage. Yes, that little bit of height will absolutely make a difference in the acceleration.

[sho220]

Originally Posted by jeebus

while we MT freaks might be a little crazy to you autotragic drivers, we are the more passionate drivers

haha...what crap...

[sho220]

Originally Posted by Shizuma

holding my girlfriend's hand while driving

Giggity...