Why doesnt Toyota make its own motor for the FT-86??

[ichitaka05]

^You can always put a Miss Firing System (Anti-Lag System) to keep the torque all the time.

[CoreDump]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

^You can always put a Miss Firing System (Anti-Lag System) to keep the torque all the time.

I just wonder if any street car comes with such system from the factory? I believe it reduces engine life also, right?

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by CoreDump

I just wonder if any street car comes with such system from the factory? I believe it reduces engine life also, right?

If you wanna count the STI rally car as Factory car then yes. It's only 1 Million Dollar. lol

[White Comet]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

^You can always put a Miss Firing System (Anti-Lag System) to keep the torque all the time.

.
..
...
....
.....
......
.......
........ Please tell me you are kidding.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by White Comet

.
..
...
....
.....
......
.......
........ Please tell me you are kidding.

1/4serious, 2/4 joke, & 1/4 sleepy. I'll let you decide.

[Edi]

hey im a newb when it comes to boxer engines, infact all engines haha, i understand the theory behind everything but ive never actually played around with modding. atm ive got a IS300 with a stock 2jz (N/A) and ive heard alottt about that engine bieng very solid and reliable.
My question is what about the subie engines? are they reliable? im talking about stock engines.
My cousin had a 2.0L Impreza (N/A) and it started leaking oil only after 130,000 kms :S that is just rediculous if this is "normal" for a boxer.

fill me in guys are they as reliable as toyota engines or not?

[aspera]

Boxer engines have good points and bad points.
1) Two heads are better than one. Sometimes. You need two of everything and that costs more. The good news is that you can wrap the coolant jacket almost the whole way around the cylinder. The bad news is that you have to have more pulleys and gears than a Swiss watch to connect the left and right head. It is basically TWO 2 cylinder engines bolted together.
2) A taller deck means a wider engine. You've only got so many millimeters to work with between the frame rails. You can't just make a bulged hood like a normal car. That means shorter strokes and bigger bores. It also means space is very tight for stuff like Gasoline Direct Injection.
3) The engine is bolted together. That's good if you want to keep it together under high boost, but bad if you want to take it apart for some reason. You've got to remove the engine and pull the block halves apart for new pistons, rods, or a crank.
4) The crank is short and stout. The crank journals have a lot of overlap. The engine is naturally balanced because of the layout. All good, no bad.
5) The EJ-series Subaru engine benefits from the big bores because there is very little valve shrouding. The heads have plenty of room for ports, but Subaru still found some way of putting a dogleg in half of the exhaust ports (!). I expect that to be one of the things that isn't in the new head design.
6) Boxer rumble: The engine fires off 4 cylinders just like any other 4 cylinder engine. The rumble comes from the cast iron exhaust manifold. I've seen some pictures of SS long tube equal length 4-into-1 headers that not only change the sound, but the whole character of the engine. The collector is back by the transmission and the four primary pipes dump straight into it.
7) How low can you go? The boxer engine only has a few things underneath it; the oil pan and the exhaust. Let's hope Toyota found a way to drop the engine down a bit. I'm thinking; an oil pan with wings and exhaust ports pointing 60 degrees towards the rear of the car.

[NESW20]

Originally Posted by aspera

Boxer engines have good points and bad points.
1) Two heads are better than one. Sometimes. You need two of everything and that costs more. The good news is that you can wrap the coolant jacket almost the whole way around the cylinder. The bad news is that you have to have more pulleys and gears than a Swiss watch to connect the left and right head. It is basically TWO 2 cylinder engines bolted together.

especially with DOHC, which I HOPE THIS ENGINE WILL HAVE. i don't really want to see SOHC heads on this thing.


2) A taller deck means a wider engine. You've only got so many millimeters to work with between the frame rails. You can't just make a bulged hood like a normal car. That means shorter strokes and bigger bores. It also means space is very tight for stuff like Gasoline Direct Injection.

shorter stroke and ideal rod:stroke ratio means it should rev very well!

3) The engine is bolted together. That's good if you want to keep it together under high boost, but bad if you want to take it apart for some reason. You've got to remove the engine and pull the block halves apart for new pistons, rods, or a crank.

yeah, it's WAY easier to rebuild a traditional I4 than an H4. although for high boost, just go ahead and give me a nice closed deck, iron block engine (read: 3SGTE). that being said, i don't ever plan on rebuilding whatever engine they put in.

4) The crank is short and stout. The crank journals have a lot of overlap. The engine is naturally balanced because of the layout. All good, no bad.

small, light, forged cranks are sexy.

5) The EJ-series Subaru engine benefits from the big bores because there is very little valve shrouding. The heads have plenty of room for ports, but Subaru still found some way of putting a dogleg in half of the exhaust ports (!). I expect that to be one of the things that isn't in the new head design.

if they maybe get a little help from yamaha here as well, they should make some pretty good port designs.

6) Boxer rumble: The engine fires off 4 cylinders just like any other 4 cylinder engine. The rumble comes from the cast iron exhaust manifold. I've seen some pictures of SS long tube equal length 4-into-1 headers that not only change the sound, but the whole character of the engine. The collector is back by the transmission and the four primary pipes dump straight into it.

i don't think they necessarily need a fancy header system to make it sound "normal," but it sure would help with power. i really just hope for EL.

7) How low can you go? The boxer engine only has a few things underneath it; the oil pan and the exhaust. Let's hope Toyota found a way to drop the engine down a bit. I'm thinking; an oil pan with wings and exhaust ports pointing 60 degrees towards the rear of the car.

DRY SUMP!!! j/k, but hopefully they can get it in there even lower and much farther back than on subarus.

i like your analysis. added my input.

-Mike

[OldSkoolToys]

The engine sound question is pretty much already answered.

They did manage to conjure up a tuned exhaust port and equal length, unequal diameter runners...and the result is that this flat four exhibits none of the "blap blap blap" noises akin to older Subaru flat 4's

a quote from Moto-P I brought over from Club4ag.

[Siriusly.Andrew]

"blap blap blap" is kind of a crude definition for the sound it really makes isnt it?

"blap blap blap" reminds me of the 787B 4 Rotor Wankel engine which won Le Mans in 91, not any particular Flat-4 motor I've witnessed.

Though after a bit of thought I suppose it does slightly bring about the sound of a UEL Flat-4. Still a little crude :P

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by Siriusly.Andrew

"blap blap blap" reminds me of the 787B 4 Rotor Wankel engine which won Le Mans in 91, not any particular Flat-4 motor I've witnessed.

hehehe, using 'wankel' and 'rotor' as adjectives in the same sentence, concerning an engine, is quite redundant.


Anywho, my friends STi has some exhaust work done to it and it pretty does that 'blap' sound.

[Siriusly.Andrew]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

hehehe, using 'wankel' and 'rotor' as adjectives in the same sentence, concerning an engine, is quite redundant.

For those who might not know :P

And I suppose blap could be used to "mouth" the sound you hear from a flat 4, I've just come to associate the sound with wankels lol

[TRDMAN]

damn I wish I didnt have to wait so long till we KNOW the exact specs of this new engine

[awatt32]

Latest reports estimate the N/A version will be around 140BHP in line with the N/A Suburu's. The direct injection will only fix the thirsty behavior of the boxer engine which like the RX8's rotary is very heavy on fuel. Toyota have gone with this engine to get as near a mid engine profile as possible with a front mounted engine.
For my money the 3SGTE used in the GT4 and MR2 turbo is the best motor Toyota / Yamaha ever came up with and should be resurected im sure with a touch of modern technology it could be mad cleaner and greener. It has fantastic torque through the rev range and loads of room for tuning 400 + BHP for not a lot of cash. I have an MR2 Turbo and a Celica GT4 both of which use the 3SGTE and they are fantastic motors with loads of scope. I also have a 2005 Celica GT with the 190BHP VVTL-i and it really disapoints at low RPM which is only made worse by the 6000 RPM kick in for the second cam which gives you a little taste of what the engine could feel like if the cut in had been set around 4000 RPM. I will be waiting for a Turbo'd TRD version which I hope will have an Aero top or T Top.