2013 Subaru BRZ vs 2012 Honda Civic Si HFP

[scorcherjf]

Bit off topic but... are these guys canadian and trying to pretend to be from the US? They use mph as their speed units yet the track they're on is in canada lol

[Kimsey47]

Originally Posted by suzuka

What are you talking about... the Si is still very competent in the market and is competitively priced (just 22k)... and is a good aftermarket platform-ready. That K24 under the hood is detuned and is basically waiting for a turbo...

I just don't look at the car and see it as, "Wow that's a cool compact" like I did the 90's Civics. They're too ugly... Plus the engineering has some major fails. The Kia Forte's are more Civic than the Civic!

[vh_supra26]

I went on Honda's website. Its actually $3,830 for the HFP package and the base price for the Si Coupe is $22,355. So that brings the total to $26,975.

[86'd]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

I went on Honda's website. Its actually $3,830 for the HFP package and the base price for the Si Coupe is $22,355. So that brings the total to $26,975.

Ironically the 18's (and the entire HFP) package probably hurts performance (through extra weight) more than it helps.

Stick to the base model and add sways, stickier tires on the 17's, add and decent springs (or coilovers) and you'll be under cost (or around the price of a stock FRS) and probably a second or two faster than the FRS.

[Turbowned]

“Truth be told,” Pratte notes, “it takes an experienced FWD pilot to get the most out of the Honda, because techniques like trail braking and left foot braking aren’t taught during high school driver’s ed.”

So your average dingus buying a car cannot replicate the performance of this test, is what you're saying? So the .1 seconds done on the track means diddly in real life, is what you're saying? So even with you left-foot braking in the Civic, the BRZ manages to be just .1 seconds off the pace while being on Prius tires, is what you're saying? Just want to be clear, here.

I'm sorry but I drove a 2008 Si 6MT with a bunch of HFP goodies and unless this coupe is remarkably better to drive than the old one, I wouldn't give it so much as a second glance.

the Honda has a more feature-rich cabin than the Subaru.

Here's another part I didn't get. Does the Civic have navigation? Bluetooth? Heated seats? Audio streaming? To me it looks like it has a crappy CD changer and some red floor mats. I'll give it points for the floor mats, but the rest of the interior hardly looks "feature-rich" to me. I think they're mistaking extra cabin space as being a feature.

[Zadkiel]

That's a worthless test. So the car that weighs more with similar horsepower, has all the weight on the nose, and better tires was only .1 second faster? So basically what they're saying is that with better tires the BRZ would spank the Civic? I hardly call .1 "dominating".

[ST185RC]

Holy shit, are cars la-z-boys now or are they vehicles? The FR-S has a VERY generous compliment of cabin features. it plays CDs, usb, aux, blue tooth connectivity, blue tooth streaming, stuff you wouldn't find standard on most bang-for-buck cars 3 years ago. It has AC, it has heating, it has directed vents. It has a tach, it has a speedo, two to be precise that you can read off of. What more do you need to distract you from driving? Someone please enlighten me on how the civic is a luxury vehicle compared to the FR-S while remaining a sports car.

Are people that damn lazy that they can't reach over to adjust the temperature that they need climate control? Does a push start really help you drive better or is it that much of a deal breaker? Are people that damn lazy that they have to have their car park for them and sense if they're going to hit something backing up? Are people too lazy to shoulder check now that they need sensors in their mirrors? I've driven an Exige S, with a big wing at the back and visibility is utter shit and I don't see people complaining that the Exige doesn't have a back up camera. But let me tell you that it needs one pretty freakin' badly.

It seems like the feature rich cars are catered for blind assholes who can't drive. I'm so tired of hearing that the interior of the FR-S that doesn't pamper and wipe their asses for them.

Here, Drive one of these:

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

fatoni, this may "grind your gears" (a la Peter Griffin)
But go back to the video. I have it linked to start at 6:05. It's worth a listen to what he says after saying the Civic was quicker:

doesnt bother me at all. im not saying that on equal tires, the brz isnt faster. im just saying the brz doesnt come with better tires

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

I went on Honda's website. Its actually $3,830 for the HFP package and the base price for the Si Coupe is $22,355. So that brings the total to $26,975.

I forgot to add the $790 destination fee.

So that now brings the total to $27,765.

[alluringreality]

Originally Posted by Zadkiel

I hardly call .1 "dominating".

Any article by Jack Baruth requires reading between the lines, or to put it another way, trying to make sense of complete nonsense. In the 2nd part of his comparison between the FR-S, Genesis Coupe, and Miata, he says the Genesis Coupe is better than the FR-S because it's faster in the straights, and the Miata is the best because it's great. In part 3 he says the Miata isn't great, but it bests the FR-S and Genesis coupe for being an old, small, impractical car with poor suspension tuning that he can hardly fit into. The guy is a clown, but I don't want to knock all clowns, because maybe some clowns are actually entertaining.

[Turbowned]

@ST185RC:

The irony is that the BRZ likely has more features than the Civic. I'm not going to pore over spec sheets right now because I don't have the time, but at least the nav unit in the BRZ appears to beat the archaic-looking CD changer in the Civic.

[GNS]

I got to paste it here for everyone to read it out LOUD. This Jack Baruth guy is a moron or an idiot writer ? A mod SI with 1/10 second fast and call " SI dominates BRZ". then .... "So if there’s so little between them around a race track, which car would I plunk my $27k down on ? " <---- go get $27k from your bank and take that domates civic SI home! what's else you not sure yourself ? God damn it !

You don't know Jack Baruth's writing style, I take it. That article on TTAC was pure sarcasm (see bolded parts)

AutoGuide’s twin team of track terror, time-trialer Dave Pratte and editor Colum Wood, have returned to Toronto Motorsports Park to take the Subaru BR-Z and the HondaCivic Si to the extreme limit and beyond. What did they find?


“Truth be told,” Pratte notes, “it takes an experienced FWD pilot to get the most out of the Honda, because techniques like trail braking and left foot braking aren’t taught during high school driver’s ed.” That’s true! So how does the Civic Si, in limited edition “HFP” trim, fare against the car that AutoGuide has already rated above the Genesis 2.0t?

Here’s where things get really interesting. Based on the lap times recorded with our Vbox data acquisition and timing system, there was just 1/10th of a second difference between these two pocket rockets, with the Civic Si HFP posting a 1-minute 26.5-second best lap and the BRZ coming in at 1-minute 26.6-seconds. That’s by far the closest battle we’ve ever had in one of these track-based comparos, a result made all the more intriguing by how differently these two machines went about their business.

That is definitely a close battle. Think about how quick a tenth of a second is!

You might be wondering which one of these cars won the comparison test. It’s not easy to choose between them.

So if there’s so little between them around a race track, which car would I plunk my $27k down on? That’s a tough call, because despite their similarities they couldn’t be more different in character and design…
With the lap times little help in determining the better performer, I honestly don’t know which one would end up in my driveway, but for most consumers out there I suspect the decision will be quite easy given just how different these two excellent and appealing sport compact offerings really are.

You could say that both of these sporty import coupes are the winners of this comparison test! In the meantime, BRZ intenders who live north of the border should be warned: there’s another great choice out there for you, and it comes chock-full of efficiency and passenger space!

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by fatoni

that analogy doesnt work because i can take shoes off and run a race. you cant take your tires off and do the same.

companies outsource a lot of stuff including tires. if a car comes with brembos do we get to change those and still be oem? how about the bilsteins on the miata? do i get to change my shocks and still have a stock car? those stock bbs?

its just a faulty argument since the points youre making arent exclusive to tires and your conclusion is

His analogy made sense to me...

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by Chupacabra

Apologies here, but for me the new Civic Si is too reminiscent of the 1st gen tC. The need to add a turbo, the detuned 2.4L motor, and the comfortable chassis just don't speak highly for Honda's actual heritage of phenomenal motors and agile footwork and sound like a play on the tC.

They need quite a few cars to return in order to prop up their history. Right now, used S2000's and Preludes are the closest vehicles they have to maintain their image. It will take time, the revision or death of the CR-Z, or release of a hi-perf Fit to make the change immediately.

When I heard the specs of the new SI, I immediately thought it was a tC with a H badge on it.