Dynosty Pushing the Limits... Fuel Pump and Clutch - Page 2 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

Dustin@Dynosty · 08-11-2012, 12:52 PM

Don is correct, the E85 is the only reason the fuel pump is inadequate at this horsepower level. Numbers people throw out are 30-40% increase in fuel needs when switching to E85 fuel.

We spoke to our Walbro rep on the pump and they were originally designing a pump for the vehicle but the bid went to Denso according to his notes. First part of next week we will pull the pump out and have some pics and more details.

Don@Accelerated · 08-11-2012, 01:01 PM

Judging by your fuel use. Sounds like a 255lph to me.

TouchMyHonda · 08-11-2012, 01:57 PM

I tuned my civ on e85 as of most recently. When we were breaking in the engine on the dyno I already had a 190lph pump with 440 injectors from my last setup (gas/NA build). I only made 210whp on my old setup. The new setup was making 240whp NA on e85 and really straining the 190lph pump. If I stuck with gas the pump would have been ok but because of the high compression I need to run e85. We were demanding too much from the pump at that point becaus of the 30% extra need on top over 93oct. 255lph solved the issue.

Anyhow, I wonder what ratin the stock pump is at?

xwd · 08-11-2012, 03:47 PM

Here is an in-depth look at the fuel system from Deatschwerks:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2391641

mastertech86 · 08-12-2012, 03:23 PM

speaking of deatchwerks...http://www.deatschwerks.com/products...tank-fuel-pump

i had started off with the walbro 255 and eventually ran into the issue where when i was on e85 with 900cc injectors i wasnt getting proper flow at the recommended 40psi so after research i found the deatchwerks 320. i recieved it and was very suprised! same size as the walbro and it was quieter! fuel issues went away and i had zero issues =)

and i would also highly recommend this from deatchwerks http://www.deatschwerks.com/products...stallation-kit
one could always make their own but as most technicians and tuners would know, its not always about fuel pressure you get but also the voltage the pump is getting. its amazing to note how much as little as 1V drop at the pump how many cc you loose and if you could get battery voltage to the pump, then that would help a lot too. i did a voltage drop test on my tC before i bought this kit and i would measure 12.8 volts at the battery but when i measured at the pump i only saw 11.9 volts

NESW20 · 08-12-2012, 10:22 PM

why not a stealth340 or walbro 400?

give it some headroom!

btw, Dustin, great to see you guys on this forum! this is "fawker" from mr2oc. one of these days i'll try to make it down and swing by the shop.

Visconti · 08-12-2012, 10:37 PM

FYI DW pump sucks...

I used them when they first came out.

I'd use any Chinese knock off before using those pumps again.

John

Tradewind · 08-13-2012, 05:11 AM

Like most others, I have been extremely pleased with DW products - especially in Subaru vehicles. The 300 lph pumps are silent and ultra reliable. Used dozens of them

Dustin@Dynosty · 08-13-2012, 04:01 PM

Pulled the hanger out today, playing with fuel pump options. Talked with DW, they do not have a pump that will drop in, but are talking about it as well. We will update later on when we disassemble the hanger and see what we can get to fit. We stock the full Walbro line, DW and Aeromotive so we have plenty of options.

dunphyjp · 08-15-2012, 01:45 PM

now does anyone know if the Direct injectors and port injectors work off the same pump or are there two pumps individually in the tank for each set?

Sportsguy83 · 08-15-2012, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dunphyjp

now does anyone know if the Direct injectors and port injectors work off the same pump or are there two pumps individually in the tank for each set?

The DI pump is located in the engine bay.

GenkiElite · 08-15-2012, 05:15 PM

Clutch and fuel pump should't be a big deal. Might as well do the flywheel while you're at it. Did I miss you say anything about the injectors? I would assume they're fine at that rate but I know nothing about DI.

Dustin@Dynosty · 08-15-2012, 05:18 PM

IIRC, the main fuel pump in tank feeds the low pressure rail (which is the one we see dropping pressure) and the mechanical fuel pump in the engine bay which then cranks the pressure through the direct injection rail (which is not dropping) IIRC it is under the black protective bracket on the driver side intake bank.

Dustin@Dynosty · 08-15-2012, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenkiElite

Clutch and fuel pump should't be a big deal. Might as well do the flywheel while you're at it. Did I miss you say anything about the injectors? I would assume they're fine at that rate but I know nothing about DI.

yes factory injectors would be maxed with E85, i don't recall off hand at what figure we calculated but very limited use

08-12-2012, 03:23 PM	#19
mastertech86 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Drives: 2009 scion tc turbo Location: florida Posts: 52 Thanks: 14 Thanked 21 Times in 11 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	speaking of deatchwerks...http://www.deatschwerks.com/products...tank-fuel-pump i had started off with the walbro 255 and eventually ran into the issue where when i was on e85 with 900cc injectors i wasnt getting proper flow at the recommended 40psi so after research i found the deatchwerks 320. i recieved it and was very suprised! same size as the walbro and it was quieter! fuel issues went away and i had zero issues =) and i would also highly recommend this from deatchwerks http://www.deatschwerks.com/products...stallation-kit one could always make their own but as most technicians and tuners would know, its not always about fuel pressure you get but also the voltage the pump is getting. its amazing to note how much as little as 1V drop at the pump how many cc you loose and if you could get battery voltage to the pump, then that would help a lot too. i did a voltage drop test on my tC before i bought this kit and i would measure 12.8 volts at the battery but when i measured at the pump i only saw 11.9 volts Last edited by mastertech86; 08-12-2012 at 03:36 PM.

08-12-2012, 10:22 PM	#20
NESW20 2.1L 3SGTE Join Date: Oct 2009 Drives: MR2 Turbo & Tacoma Location: Columbus, IN Posts: 1,248 Thanks: 29 Thanked 24 Times in 22 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	why not a stealth340 or walbro 400? give it some headroom! btw, Dustin, great to see you guys on this forum! this is "fawker" from mr2oc. one of these days i'll try to make it down and swing by the shop. __________________ 1991 MR2 Turbo - 2.1L high compression stroker 3SGTE 2006 Tacoma 4x4 TRD Off Road - All-Pro front bumper, Old Man Emu shocks, Old Man Emu HD front coils, All-Pro leafs 1990 240SX Coupe - sold 2008 Civic Si Sedan

08-13-2012, 05:11 AM	#22
Tradewind Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Drives: 2006 Subaru Liberty EZ30 S/charged Location: Cairns, Qld, Australia Posts: 291 Thanks: 0 Thanked 53 Times in 40 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Like most others, I have been extremely pleased with DW products - especially in Subaru vehicles. The 300 lph pumps are silent and ultra reliable. Used dozens of them __________________ Toyota 86 test driver

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08-11-2012, 12:52 PM	#15
Dustin@Dynosty Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Drives: 2013 FR-S Location: KY Posts: 555 Thanks: 1 Thanked 261 Times in 131 Posts Mentioned: 29 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Don is correct, the E85 is the only reason the fuel pump is inadequate at this horsepower level. Numbers people throw out are 30-40% increase in fuel needs when switching to E85 fuel. We spoke to our Walbro rep on the pump and they were originally designing a pump for the vehicle but the bid went to Denso according to his notes. First part of next week we will pull the pump out and have some pics and more details.

08-11-2012, 01:01 PM	#16
Don@Accelerated Join Date: Jun 2012 Drives: 2013 BRZ Location: Toledo Ohio Posts: 880 Thanks: 6 Thanked 1,162 Times in 316 Posts Mentioned: 15 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Judging by your fuel use. Sounds like a 255lph to me.

08-11-2012, 01:57 PM	#17
TouchMyHonda Vtec Jesus Join Date: Jul 2012 Drives: 13 BRZ, 13 Golf R, 15 Audi S4 Location: LSD Posts: 1,165 Thanks: 623 Thanked 243 Times in 153 Posts Mentioned: 5 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I tuned my civ on e85 as of most recently. When we were breaking in the engine on the dyno I already had a 190lph pump with 440 injectors from my last setup (gas/NA build). I only made 210whp on my old setup. The new setup was making 240whp NA on e85 and really straining the 190lph pump. If I stuck with gas the pump would have been ok but because of the high compression I need to run e85. We were demanding too much from the pump at that point becaus of the 30% extra need on top over 93oct. 255lph solved the issue. Anyhow, I wonder what ratin the stock pump is at?

08-11-2012, 03:47 PM	#18
xwd Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Drives: 2013 DGM Subaru BRZ (Subie #9) Location: ATL, US Posts: 2,667 Thanks: 123 Thanked 861 Times in 552 Posts Mentioned: 32 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Here is an in-depth look at the fuel system from Deatschwerks: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2391641

08-12-2012, 10:37 PM	#21
Visconti Banned Join Date: Apr 2012 Drives: 05 STi Location: Norwalk, CT Posts: 2,843 Thanks: 196 Thanked 3,188 Times in 1,197 Posts Mentioned: 375 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	FYI DW pump sucks... I used them when they first came out. I'd use any Chinese knock off before using those pumps again. John

08-13-2012, 04:01 PM	#23
Dustin@Dynosty Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Drives: 2013 FR-S Location: KY Posts: 555 Thanks: 1 Thanked 261 Times in 131 Posts Mentioned: 29 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Pulled the hanger out today, playing with fuel pump options. Talked with DW, they do not have a pump that will drop in, but are talking about it as well. We will update later on when we disassemble the hanger and see what we can get to fit. We stock the full Walbro line, DW and Aeromotive so we have plenty of options.

08-15-2012, 01:45 PM	#24
dunphyjp Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Drives: Ultramarine FR-S Location: Villanova, Pa Posts: 54 Thanks: 16 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	now does anyone know if the Direct injectors and port injectors work off the same pump or are there two pumps individually in the tank for each set?

08-15-2012, 05:15 PM	#26
GenkiElite Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Drives: 91 Corolla (dd) S14 (daily drifter) Location: Cincinnati Posts: 460 Thanks: 139 Thanked 78 Times in 50 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Clutch and fuel pump should't be a big deal. Might as well do the flywheel while you're at it. Did I miss you say anything about the injectors? I would assume they're fine at that rate but I know nothing about DI.

08-15-2012, 05:18 PM	#27
Dustin@Dynosty Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Drives: 2013 FR-S Location: KY Posts: 555 Thanks: 1 Thanked 261 Times in 131 Posts Mentioned: 29 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	IIRC, the main fuel pump in tank feeds the low pressure rail (which is the one we see dropping pressure) and the mechanical fuel pump in the engine bay which then cranks the pressure through the direct injection rail (which is not dropping) IIRC it is under the black protective bracket on the driver side intake bank.

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