Let's talk race car. 2 options.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

I 2nd this.

Just for background I've been racing since 2004 and instructing since 2010 (volunteer and now hired coaching). Last year I won a heated championship ITA battle in my CRX.

I am very familiar with the Miata as well and no, I won't be racing a Miata. Nothing wrong with them, just not my cup of tea. It is called Spec Pinata for a reason In fact the damage on 2 of the 4 corners of my car are due to Miatae. There's no point on getting rid of what I have now to turn the same lap times.

The point of building the FRS is to go faster than ITA. However I like the idea of keeping it in IT (ITS, ITR?) but I don't know if it's going to get classed in an IT class. A lot of the non-IT classes are really open (like the one in Scenario 1; ST) and thus cost a lot of money to build a car just to compete, not to mention run up front. The car running up front of ST currently is a 100k BMW M3. So building a car to ST is a fun theoretical exercise but I'm with 000Racing on this one, I'd rather be in some production based class that's faster than Showroom Stock.

I can build the cage myself if I was really motivated but will probably have it built locally in the $2500 range. I really like the idea of racing an FRS and I like the rule set of ST. I mean, how could you not want to race an FRS with a supercharger, 10" wheels, aero and massive brakes?

You'll have to forgive my laziness to check the current GCR, but back when I was doing stuff in SCCA to become an IT car it had to be at LEAST 5 model years old. I doubt that's changed given the goal of improved touring. I almost built a ST car once when it was a younger class and it got stupid before I got 20% done with the car so I gave up, so I definately agree that ST will be a bad idea.

NASA might do a spec series, although I hate NASA with a passion soooo....

IMO SS is the best place for the car in SCCA currently, but I seriously doubt SCCA has classed it for SSB/SSC yet.

Sadly, the car is likely too new with too few out there being built as roadrace cars to justify them spending the time classing it.... yet.

Edit: Got a little less lazy and checked the GCR, the FRS/BRZ are not SS classified and IT is still 5 years. (well 4 previous plus current, don't know why they just don't say "5" )

[wu_dot_com]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

keep in mind this is a new car, so cage builders might be scratching their heads a bit longer figuring it out

also way easier putting a cage in a miata..

Actually a well known cage builder already have their product line for this car. Contact Racecomp for more info.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Btw: I started this thread in this forum only because there isn't a "roadrace" forum. I know where not exclusively talking about engine/ecu/exhaust components.

There is a "Tracking" forum though.. closest thing. I should move it as I doubt there are enough road racers here to justify a separate subforum.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by wu_dot_com

Actually a well known cage builder already have their product line for this car. Contact Racecomp for more info.

Autopower and Kirk I'd consider to save money for a DE car...

For a race car, anything non custom is a waste of money IMO.

[WingsofWar]

This thread belongs in tracking section

-moved

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

This thread belongs in tracking section

-moved

LOL you beat me.

[celica73]

If it's like Spec Miata you will probably get caught in a crash on the fist lap. Why bother? Are you talking any car, or just BRZ/FRS here? In the end, a Miata or S2000 will probably win because Double A arms just work better. Without a budget, I'd ballast an Elise/Exige up to minimum weight.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by celica73

If it's like Spec Miata you will probably get caught in a crash on the fist lap. Why bother? Are you talking any car, or just BRZ/FRS here? In the end, a Miata or S2000 will probably win because Double A arms just work better. Without a budget, I'd ballast an Elise/Exige up to minimum weight.

So a Porsche GT3 will never win a race? :P

I'm pro double wishbone as well, but you can make macstrut work.

I agree on Spec Miata, it's a NIGHTMARE class, however it's the drivers. I've done races with 110+ cars and had no car to car contact for 14 HOURS, so how these spec miata guys wreck in 20-30 minutes is beyond me.

[Dave-ROR]

Oh and let's keep rollcage specific conversation here: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14193

[rice_classic]

I have a race this weekend and the two run groups I'm running in are 50+ car fields and one of them is the same group the Spec Miatas are in. I run side by side with those guys a lot. I race with the ICSCC here in the PacNW, not SCCA because the local conference is a much bigger group, it is the big dog on the block with much less politics. Also Conference is run by volunteers and it's for the racer by the racer, unlike SCCA which seems like it's becoming more and more owned by SFI every year.

2 year belts... puh-lease!

I didn't buy the FRS for a long term car. I bought to make it a race car in 5 years so I have plenty of time to figure out the direction I want to take but it's fun to brainstorm. Everywhere I turn it's autox this and autox that (which is a very good thing) but very little on racing and part of that is classing it. (Same dilemma in autox).

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by celica73

If it's like Spec Miata you will probably get caught in a crash on the fist lap. Why bother? Are you talking any car, or just BRZ/FRS here? In the end, a Miata or S2000 will probably win because Double A arms just work better. Without a budget, I'd ballast an Elise/Exige up to minimum weight.

Camber, roll centers, pitch, motion ratios... You can make the Mac work just fine.

The "ST" class I'm talking about isn't the same ST as SCCA. It's unique to the ICSCC as well and you hit the nail on the head with the S2000 comment but for a different reason.

If I could find an S2000 with a salvage title and a Comptech Supercharger on it, I'd probably do that (in a year or two). I know it can make 260-280 rwhp reliably on pump gas so that could be a great contender.

I have a sneaking suspicion that in 5 years I can find a salvage title FRS for CHEEEEEEEEEEAP.

[icemang17]

You list 2011 ITA champion on your sig....so clearly you are not new to racing....

I'd also say your project budget seems reasonable.....the one thing I would NOT DO is run boost.....of any type..... Its just a reliablity thing...supercharger belts slip, turbos get silly hot....not to mention the increased wear on the driveline....

I'd make the car as light as possible and shoot for say 200whp with stock internals....I think a a full race intake-exhaust can get close to that....13-1 lb/hp is pretty quick as an off track weight....and it will be VERY reliable....

Another option given your budget is a full built race engine, with increased displacement....something with lightened interals that can turn more RPM reliably....if you can maintain the current torque curve but stretch it out to 8500rpm (9k redline) you will make 245hp with ease (more like 300 with more displacement)

The single best way to "win" in a given race class is to read the rules with a fine tooth comb and build the car precisely to the limit of those rules....

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by icemang17

The single best way to "win" in a given race class is to read the rules with a fine tooth comb and build the car precisely to the limit of those rules....

Well that's the biggest thing isn't. The Rule Book is always first. That's a problem grassroots racing in general has attracting new racers... The Rule Book.

Many "enthusiasts" spend $$$ modifying their cars, doing engine swaps etc etc and then they want to go racing only to find out their car doesn't fit in any class or the only class it would be legal in has $100k cars in it.

Without first doing any research on what class allows what, what modifications can be done and the overall costs, a lot of potential new recruits are immediately disenfranchised. That's not always a bad thing though; weeding out the folks that are easily discouraged by "rules" has its advantages too.

When I'm instructing and I ask the students if they have any intention of ever racing, if they say yes then I talk them about the importance of reading about the classes first before spending the money on a race car.

[ultra]

Don't mean to be a killjoy but isn't it wiser to choose a car entirely based on competitiveness within whatever class/rule limitations there are, as opposed to choosing a car and then trying to make it competitive within a class?

I love an unconventional entry or build as much as he next guy but it usually seems to be the tougher, more expensive and more labour intensive approach to being competitive.

If it's a power to weight based classification system IMO I'd prioritize lightness if the race distance is long and focus more on power, torque and mechanical grip if the distance is short (I.e. a sprint type format).