Random Thoughts - Part III The Search for Spark (No Politics)

[Sapphireho]

Strange weather here in Idaho. Going to get pretty warm Thursday night.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

Strange weather here in Idaho. Going to get pretty warm Thursday night.

You sure they didn't just leave the "-" off of it?

[bcj]

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

Strange weather here in Idaho. Going to get pretty warm Thursday night.

someone's trying to warn us

[spcmafia]

I got sort of a stupid question, but I've been trying to wrap my head around it.



I've been practicing trail braking on the simulator in order to clip the apex and keep momentum going. But the way that I've been doing it, is by braking with my left foot. Press down, slowly ease off, while my right foot stays about 10-20% on the gas, gradually increasing as I come off the turn.



I haven't done it in a real application, because is just not justifiable on the public road. I'm thinking more for the track.



My thinking is, since LFB is not easy due to pedal position, how do those of you, more experienced drivers trail brake? Is it just a faster movement of the right foot between the brake and gas? To a degree that you're heel-to-toe-ing at a certain point?

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by spcmafia

I got sort of a stupid question, but I've been trying to wrap my head around it.



I've been practicing trail braking on the simulator in order to clip the apex and keep momentum going. But the way that I've been doing it, is by braking with my left foot. Press down, slowly ease off, while my right foot stays about 10-20% on the gas, gradually increasing as I come off the turn.



I haven't done it in a real application, because is just not justifiable on the public road. I'm thinking more for the track.



My thinking is, since LFB is not easy due to pedal position, how do those of you, more experienced drivers trail brake? Is it just a faster movement of the right foot between the brake and gas? To a degree that you're heel-to-toe-ing at a certain point?

I wouldn't say I'm much more experienced but I'll give it a shot.

Trail braking is useful in shifting the weight of the car onto the front axle to get the steering to bite more and rotate the rear more due to less weight on the rear.

If in a rwd car, pressing the gas at the same time as the brake will just move your brake bias forward a bit, which taxes the front wheels more and the rear less which seems counterintuitive to me.

I don't lfb (AX), I just use the brake right footed, then switch to gas as necessary. Let off the brake completely once initial turn in is set then control rotation through the latter 60%-70% with the gas. My car gets some lift off oversteer on some of the more track-like corners anyway so I don't have to trail brake there.

Probably doing it wrong but it works for me.

[spcmafia]

Pretty sure chocolate milk isn’t supposed to come out of a catch can.






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[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by spcmafia

Pretty sure chocolate milk isn’t supposed to come out of a catch can.

Yes, it is. That's what it looks like when saturated with water (combustion by-product).

That's also why it's best to get the crankcase oil up to operating temp. Catch-can contents are an extreme example, but...

[spcmafia]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Yes, it is. That's what it looks like when saturated with water (combustion by-product).

That's also why it's best to get the crankcase oil up to operating temp. Catch-can contents are an extreme example, but...

Interesting, after further research it seems it’s working as intended. I always drive in the cold mornings only after the car has gotten up to temp, when driving home I keep the revs and shifts low until the car has gotten up to temp too.

Rather have all that in the can rather than the manifold.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by spcmafia

Interesting, after further research it seems it’s working as intended. I always drive in the cold mornings only after the car has gotten up to temp, when driving home I keep the revs and shifts low until the car has gotten up to temp too.

Rather have all that in the can rather than the manifold.

Meh... Consider how many miles it took to collect that, what, 20 ml? It's fine either way.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by spcmafia

I got sort of a stupid question, but I've been trying to wrap my head around it.



I've been practicing trail braking on the simulator in order to clip the apex and keep momentum going. But the way that I've been doing it, is by braking with my left foot. Press down, slowly ease off, while my right foot stays about 10-20% on the gas, gradually increasing as I come off the turn.



I haven't done it in a real application, because is just not justifiable on the public road. I'm thinking more for the track.



My thinking is, since LFB is not easy due to pedal position, how do those of you, more experienced drivers trail brake? Is it just a faster movement of the right foot between the brake and gas? To a degree that you're heel-to-toe-ing at a certain point?

I trail brake right footed in my car. Most corners you have to downshift for on track so left foot braking doesn’t really work. I don’t find LFB comfortable in the car, even with smallish feet the pedal box is kind of small. Sim, I exclusively LFB since no clutch.

Trail braking is just a natural phase of braking on track. You get on the brakes before a corner and you transfer all that weight to the front tires. Popping off the pedal suddenly unloads the fronts and induces understeer. Trail braking reduces that.

I don’t really find LFB that useful. There are a couple double apex corners I will use it, as Spuds said, usually to transfer a bit of weight to the front of the car. Sometimes there are high speed corners where I need to give it a brush of the brake pedal but that’s about it.

[spcmafia]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Meh... Consider how many miles it took to collect that, what, 20 ml? It's fine either way.

Took about a year and half actually. So about 20K miles or less since I only do an oil change twice a year.

[Stephen W.]

When I was working at the race school we taught trail braking after students had learned to blip on downshifts. It’s easier to use the “roll your ankle” technique to tail brake if you’d just used it to down shift before turn in. Although we taught both LFB and RFB most stuck with the right foot technique in the slower, tighter turns. Some used the left foot to balance the car in high speed turns or to cheat a little in the kink. We told everyone to lift in the kink but every year some would try to take it flat. Wrecked more than a few cars that way. So, the fast guys figured out that if they dragged the brakes with their left foot while their right foot was still planted it slowed the car enough to make it without dropping too many revs.

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I trail brake right footed in my car. Most corners you have to downshift for on track so left foot braking doesn’t really work. I don’t find LFB comfortable in the car, even with smallish feet the pedal box is kind of small. < snip >

As for small pedal boxes the Twins have huge space compared to my “new to me” 30 year old Super Seven.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Meh... Consider how many miles it took to collect that, what, 20 ml? It's fine either way.

And when it collects faster, it's oil, no water. Have had it happen a couple times at events, must be down to specifics in the course layout.