New ICE Vehicles Banned in California by 2035

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dem...ens-ev-mandate

I mean it is an attempt, if ultimately doomed from the start because Biden would veto it. They will have to wait for more control of the senate and see if Trump or DeSantis get into office before making a realistic effort.

"Republicans are employing scare tactics to deliberately mislead the American people about EVs in order to prop up Big Oil corporations," the memo stated. "The reality is that EVs are already popular, cheaper to own, and ongoing technological advancements are translating to better options for consumers every year."

Following the vote Wednesday, the CARS Act now moves to the Senate, where it has already received bipartisan support. However, the White House said in a statement Monday that President Biden would veto the CARS Act if it is passed.

I also don't know if California's "mandate" and those of other states would be enough on their own. It has in the past considering the size of the market.

When Trump was trying to roll back standards, manufactures were scrambling to make alliances to agree to stick to the standards set forth by California et. al., and they went from lobbying pre-POTUS Trump and POTUS Trump to roll back standards to basically freaking out and lobbying the opposite after it became clear that it might turn into a "states rights" argument, fearing that there might be a California alliance standard and a federal standard, or worse, an even more fractured system. The manufactures then decided to be unified and agreed to the alliance of states that had sued the Trump administration to meet Obama-era standards (California et. al), which saved them for having to design cars for two or more emission standards--a more detrimental and expensive proposition.

Major automakers buck Trump’s emissions rollback by signing deal with California
https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/25/2...alifornia-deal

[Dadhawk]

First photo I've seen of the GM/Flying J charging stations.

Nice pull-through lanes so you can charge if towing, or if your plug isn't in a Tesla standard location. Odd part, it looks like both cars were charging with the other's cable.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

First photo I've seen of the GM/Flying J charging stations.

Nice pull-through lanes so you can charge if towing, or if your plug isn't in a Tesla standard location. Odd part, it looks like both cars were charging with the other's cable.

they're just sharing a romantic moment, much like when a couple would intertwine their arms to drink from each other's beverage.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

they're just sharing a romantic moment, much like when a couple would intertwine their arms to drink from each other's beverage.

Apparently the guy in the LYRIQ (he posted the pic on a different forum) said the Bolt on the other side was already charging with the "wrong" cable so he just followed suit.

The good thing is the cables are long enough to do what you need to do.

[Ultramaroon]

Awww....

[Lantanafrs2]

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/11/f-15...s-in-half.html

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/11/f-15...s-in-half.html

I think these articles are a little misleading personally. Sales are not decreasing, they are increasing. It's just the OEMs were a bit optimistic on how many they could bill/sale at the price they are currently charging for them. There are only so many folks that can afford a $100,000 (+/-) vehicle and that market is near saturated.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/11/f-15...s-in-half.html

https://www.motortrend.com/news/ford...s%20per%20week.

I have a feeling EVs like the lightning aren't growing as fast as they hoped because the price is so high like Motortrend mentions above, but it goes worse than that. BEVs are more expensive at POS than ICEVs, so that, on top of high interest rates, are probably pushing buyers out of the market. Even if the BEVs will save some money over time over a similar ICEVs of the same spec, a person has to be able to qualify for the car at POS.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

[url]...Even if the BEVs will save some money over time over a similar ICEVs of the same spec, a person has to be able to qualify for the car at POS.

Only a very small percentage of buyers come close to considering long-term costs. It's all about the monthly payment with zero money down.

Most persons don't even understand the concept of paying cash for a vehicle.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I think these articles are a little misleading personally. Sales are not decreasing, they are increasing. It's just the OEMs were a bit optimistic on how many they could bill/sale at the price they are currently charging for them. There are only so many folks that can afford a $100,000 (+/-) vehicle and that market is near saturated.

Agreed, it's dishonest. Like when the government says they're cutting spending. When in actuality, they're just reducing the rate of INCREASED spending, lol. If sales increase, but at a slower rate, they're still increasing. It's almost like nobody in charge ever took a few mathematic courses

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Only a very small percentage of buyers come close to considering long-term costs. It's all about the monthly payment with zero money down.

Most persons don't even understand the concept of paying cash for a vehicle.

I think the two biggest things people look at is monthly cost and reliability. The problem is the POS price is a guaranteed cost. The projected price is not guaranteed, so if the POS price jumps up, not only does it deter people, but it flat out prices them out from qualifying. It doesn’t matter if they will save a few hundred in gas and maintenance per month; the POS price makes it prohibitive. It doesn’t help that manufacturers are selling EVs at a premium, making them up market based on performance, tech, features, etc. like Motortrend said.

Companies like Lexus built a reputation for reliability. That took time. Electric powertrains may be low maintenance and more reliable, but most people likely have the false perception that they are unreliable and unproven, will likely explode in a fire, may require more maintenance, and so on. Plus, with reliability comes dependability, and the charging networks aren’t as dependable, as people would like, nor as plentiful, so I’m sure there are reliability/dependability fears and fears of the unknown, including range anxiety.

Nio reduced the price of entry by detaching the price of the car from the battery and basically turned the battery into a gas payment, effectively making the loan for the car and for qualifying on par with cars in the $20k’s range.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Only a very small percentage of buyers come close to considering long-term costs. It's all about the monthly payment with zero money down.

Most persons don't even understand the concept of paying cash for a vehicle.

Most people dont have a big chunk of cash laying in the bank or under a mattress to even complete a transaction of this magnitude like that.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Most people dont have a big chunk of cash laying in the bank or under a mattress to even complete a transaction of this magnitude like that.

Oh I agree and while I recommend it, I know it isn't a path for everyone.

You have to plan and save for it, and be willing to compromise on the path, maybe buying cheap, saving for an upgrade, flipping along the way.

I could get a loan for just about any car I want short of a supercar. I choose not to. We haven't had an auto payment in 20 years, except to ourselves.

Mostly my response was to @Irace86.2.0 with my $0.02 as to why running costs don't figure into most car purchases, except may when they look at the MPG calculations and it's about this deep "this car has a higher MPG rating than that car, but that car is close enough and it's the color I want".

[bcj]

Previous user experience with re-chargeable batteries isn't overwhelmingly positive.
My laptop was sort of OK for a year or two. Now it doesn't go for more than 10 minutes unplugged.
Having to pitch out a phone with a dead un-replaceable battery is a burden even now.