New ICE Vehicles Banned in California by 2035

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

woke investment industry.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

I would expect a lot of announcements from smaller companies touting new battery technologies in order to lure investors and boost shareprices. Coming from Toyota I believe it's meant to improve their esg and favor in the frightened and woke investment industry.

Well they've also been investing in Solid State battery research for ages now, and they seem to be the ONLY one that has anything to do with it with any type of forward progress. while other companies have brought out new battery chemistries and technologies (Sodium ion, the LFP or whatever other variation of Lithium ion makeup), Toyota seems to have hedged their bets on Solid State being the next big thing.

Some smaller startups have touted Soild State breakthroughs but they're nothing but fluff pieces or one offs that are more akin to a proof of concept.

Toyota was the only one with an actual working Solid State battery prototype car (Toyota LQ concept) testing during the 2020 Tokyo Olympics.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Go Toyota, but I'll believe it when I see it. Solid state is the real solution to getting rid of charging time concerns. Making a vehicle with (relatively) light weight battery that also has a whole day driving charge is great.

If it really has a 10 minute charge though, why not make it half that size and save even more weight? I've be very happy with a 350 mile range and a 10 minute 0 to 100% charge.

I'll second this: I'll believe it when I see it, and what I mean by that is, I'll believe it when I see it available for a reasonable price. Their solid state battery was very expensive, and they previously said that they expected to have such battery chemistries available to top tier Lexus models and flagship vehicles, and they said that lithium-ion and other batteries chemistries would work down to cheaper models. This is what Tesla does too with their Model S/X vs Model 3/Y and US vs China models and markets, respectively. Even with this announcement, I don't think that has changed. They will still be using liquid based batteries, and this solid state design will be used to out perform their rivals on cars like the LC500 or something.

I'm sure the size could be smaller too. Although, the bigger the battery, the faster it could add range. They aren't providing any specifications for this battery, so we don't know if this is just a big battery like 200kWh with the weight of a lithium-ion battery at 100kWh, so it has twice the range and a large size that can add range faster, and we don't know if this battery has the ability to charge fast because its battery chemistry could accept a 1000kW charger, but those don't exist, so on a standard Tesla supercharger, it might take 20 minutes to get to 80% from 10% or something (an improvement, but not what was claimed).

We just don't know until we know. Tesla and others has been more open about its battery designs, but Toyota has been less specific, IMO, so even though it is Toyota and not some lab or startup making these claims, I'm hesitant to get too excited.

[Irace86.2.0]

This was a month ago from Toyota with a few more details. We discussed Toyota claiming to be working on copying Tesla's playbook with gigacastings, automated assembly line and so on. This gives some more battery specifics, but again, I'll believe it when I see it.

https://electrek.co/2023/06/13/toyot...-breakthrough/

[NoHaveMSG]

I'd like to know how they actually charged it. "Capable of" is not real world. That being said I totally agree that why not make a smaller cheaper battery with this tech. Range anxiety is becoming less of a thing with more stations available. A car like a base Model 3 has enough range for most people with EV's. The convenience of charging less often is nice but is going to become less of a requirement if we could get more reasonably priced EV's that average working age people can afford to buy for the utility.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Well they've also been investing in Solid State battery research for ages now...

As a frightened and woke investor, are you a bull or bear on investing in Toyota in light of these announcements? Has Toyota successfully "lured" you in, as Lantanafrs2 claimed?

[Lantanafrs2]

Toyota looks like an even investment right now based on the 5yr chart. Looks to be at or near a 50% retracement from its lows. I would need to know they invested amply in pride month, transvestite talent shows for preschoolers and Greta thunberg statues before I jumped in though.

[WolfpackS2k]

Curious of @Irace86.2.0 's opinion on this.

https://www.thedrive.com/features/to...-evs-heres-why

It's what, in my view, anyone with half a brain already knew.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Curious of @Irace86.2.0 's opinion on this.

https://www.thedrive.com/features/to...-evs-heres-why

It's what, in my view, anyone with half a brain already knew.

They had me until they lost all credibility at the end when they said "Besides, when the 2023 Toyota Prius is one of the best-looking cars on sale today, it makes the pragmatic solution that much easier to choose."

The biggest problem I see for me personally is that most Hybrids don't have enough range on electrons to meet my daily driving needs. In the end it's an overly complex halfway solution for an individual. I do agree it would likely cut emissions more quickly overall.

[WolfpackS2k]

^True but most of the EVs on the road today use halfbaked tech and are quickly becoming obsolete. Many will be dumped, some will be recycled, but fairly wasteful in the long run. The hybrids are less wasteful and could be longer lasting as well as ultimately more useful.

Also the Prius does look good. One of the best...well, maybe not but have you noticed how ugly the average vehicle is these days?

[NoHaveMSG]

Hybrids have their place, for someone like me or my dad who used to commute 100 miles a day, they are not a great solution since most of our driving is highway and freeway. At the time he was working he had an old CRX that he paid like 1500 bucks for that got around 45mpg, about the same as a Prius of the time. He went through 2 engines and 2 transmissions in that car. I'd imagine living in town in stop and go traffic they do a lot better.

[MyHybridBurnsGasAndTires]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Hybrids have their place, for someone like me or my dad who used to commute 100 miles a day, they are not a great solution since most of our driving is highway and freeway. At the time he was working he had an old CRX that he paid like 1500 bucks for that got around 45mpg, about the same as a Prius of the time. He went through 2 engines and 2 transmissions in that car. I'd imagine living in town in stop and go traffic they do a lot better.

how is 45mpg not a great solution? especially considering that a CRX is incredibly unsafe in a crash compared to a modern vehicle

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by MyHybridBurnsGasAndTires

how is 45mpg not a great solution? especially considering that a CRX is incredibly unsafe in a crash compared to a modern vehicle

45 is what the CRX got. When you are blue collar I guess you roll the dice on value VS crash safety of a new car He did go to a Scion XA that he had the last few years he worked, it also got mid 40's, similar to Prius of same era.

Point being, highway commuting I don't see the value of a hybrid. In town driving, absolutely better than pure ICE.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Hybrids have their place, for someone like me or my dad who used to commute 100 miles a day, they are not a great solution since most of our driving is highway and freeway.

Personally, I much prefer the Chevy Volt drivetrain to a typical hybrid drive train. I still find the Volt battery lacking though.

What I would prefer is a PHEV with a 200 mile electric range, and a Volt style generator so that the vehicle is always (well 99% of the time) running off the electric engines even when burning fuel.

(And, yes, I know the Volt has some situations where the gas engine assists with driving the wheels)