New ICE Vehicles Banned in California by 2035

[Lantanafrs2]

https://www.thedrive.com/news/2024-c...ub-competition

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

https://www.thedrive.com/news/2024-c...ub-competition

It's not limited to the e-ray, and it isn't about the vehicles it's about safety at the track. The tracks aren't equipped to handle emergency situations with EV, PHEVs or HEVs. This is to allow them time to get up to speed on them.

As I've said before, I'm surprised they let them race in the first place given the lack of fire safety equipment and the real risk at a performance venue.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

It's not limited to the e-ray, and it isn't about the vehicles it's about safety at the track. The tracks aren't equipped to handle emergency situations with EV, PHEVs or HEVs. This is to allow them time to get up to speed on them.

As I've said before, I'm surprised they let them race in the first place given the lack of fire safety equipment and the real risk at a performance venue.

You’re funny. Your response assumes people are just reading the headlines, and then you are explaining what is easily inferred or outright explained in the body of the article.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

@Irace86.2.0 in regard to the chart about truck/car prices above, part of that crossover was the fact that around the mid 90's is when buyers began demanding trucks that were basically big cars with all the features and cup holders and conveniences.

As far as those saying small trucks are dying out, you aren't paying attention. Think Ford Maverick and Ranger, the Santa Cruz, Chevy Montana, etc.

There isn't some secret society or conspiracy amongst the manufacturers to only sell gas guzzling trucks. They are in the business of making money, so if there was a market for small cars they would sell them. Until recently GM and others have had small cars, but guess what, no one bought them. Even the vaunted Japanese OEMs no longer build true small cars. My son just bought a 2023 Honda Accord. It is almost a foot longer, and several inches wider than the 2002 Honda Accord it replaced. The 2023 Honda Civic is nearly over 40" longer (184 vs 147") than the 1977 Honda Civic I owned and loved.

As for the Bolt, unfortunately I think they had to retire the name because of the bad press on the batteries. Never mind they sell every one they build and they did the right thing on the battery issue, it does have a negative connotation they likely don't want to carry over to the Ultium platform.

Agreed. The bare bones utility truck became a family vehicle with leather electric seats, premium features, space, short beds, etc. When Cadillac made this and people put dubs on hummers, I knew things had really changed.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

You’re funny. Your response assumes people are just reading the headlines, and then you are explaining what is easily inferred or outright explained in the body of the article.

Hah, yea, I guess I am... You know because no one ever does what you sugges t right?

Actually I was just part of a very long thread on another forum about this very thing, and I guess I'm still shell shocked from it.

[alex87f]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

You seem to be right.





This doesn't seem to be correct. The EU and US differ, but both allow for looser emissions with larger vehicles. The EU is/was based on mass, and the US based their standards more on footprint than just weight, which encouraged light-weighting. If anything, Europe had policies that at times would have incentivized manufactures to increase vehicle size, as the links mentioned.

The US is much more stringent on diesel emissions for passenger cars (especially after VW diesel-gate; they give more allowances for diesel trucks, except for their recent crackdown on cheat devices), which is why the EU has so many diesel options, with many diesel engine options, and with 50% of vehicles being diesel. They have more cities in the EU, so cars tend to be smaller to park. Manual transmissions are still far more popular. Gas is more expensive and public transportation is more available. The US has more open highways and larger B roads than the EU, but the EU has the autobahn. With all these differences, it is probably hard to do an apples to apples comparison to the buying habits and market pressures between the EU and US, even if the trends are to buy more SUVs in both markets.







https://theicct.org/wp-content/uploa...ief_201808.pdf



https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegDa...)587331_EN.pdf

You're only seeing one side of the coin. CAFE European standards are indeed adjusted by mass (I would assume this is meant to protect upmarket carmakers from being hit too hard). But this is the business side only.

Consumers are also taxed when they buy a car, and there are typically no special allowances for heavier vehicles (although keep in mind we're talking about 27 different countries, I didn't check'em all ).

Most countries either have a yearly road tax or a registration tax, sometimes both. Those will generally take into account CO2 emissions, and possibly other parameters (hp, fuel used, etc.), and are generally meant to hit large vehicles harder.

Professional vehicles (vans) typically have some degree of leeway, but with diesel close to $8/ga, there's still a strong incentive for companies to use smaller engined vans / trucks. Company cars don't get this tolerance and are generally taxed as hard or harder than personal vehicles.

Despite this, there are loopholes. Defeat devices and workarounds helped manufacturers reduce advertised fuel economy to get around regulations, which means large vehicles weren't taxed as heavily as they should have been (for example, an X5M40i had an advertised fuel economy close to 30mpg..). That's been corrected thanks to new -if imperfect- testing cycles, but PHEVs are now the new easy workaround for manufacturers to sell large SUVs with low advertised fuel consumption, even though users may or may not actually charge them.

And despite all these measures, small cars are increasingly replaced by higher vehicles like Audi Q3s instead of A3s, GLAs instead of A Mercedes, etc.

Also, the autobahn is stricly a German thing and even there, half the motorway network has a 75mph limit

[Lantanafrs2]

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics...ic-car-drivers

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics...ic-car-drivers

That's to be expected, and many states already do it.

Using the Georgia fuel tax (Fed and State) of $0.395 per gallon, I already pay an average of $219 in road taxes per year in the FRS averaging about 19,000 miles a year. Georgia's annual renewal for an EV is $212.

So, to me this is a wash.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

That's to be expected, and many states already do it.

Using the Georgia fuel tax (Fed and State) of $0.395 per gallon, I already pay an average of $219 in road taxes per year in the FRS averaging about 19,000 miles a year. Georgia's annual renewal for an EV is $212.

So, to me this is a wash.

The only problem I see is that this fee is on top of the other registration fees, so instead of a $243 registration fee there is a $443 registration fee, which is a big one time payment for some people living month to month. Most EV drivers will feel fine with paying the small fee, and I don't know how much of a deterrent this would be for EV buyers.

The other issue is that the gas tax is a cost-for-use tax, so people who drive more who use more will pay more, but this bill introduces a fee that makes EVs pay irregardless of the miles, which doesn't seem fair.

This is also odd from a state that is typically anti-taxes.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

The only problem I see is that this fee is on top of the other registration fees, so instead of a $243 registration fee there is a $443 registration fee, which is a big one time payment for some people living month to month. Most EV drivers will feel fine with paying the small fee, and I don't know how much of a deterrent this would be for EV buyers.

The other issue is that the gas tax is a cost-for-use tax, so people who drive more who use more will pay more, but this bill introduces a fee that makes EVs pay irregardless of the miles, which doesn't seem fair.

This is also odd from a state that is typically anti-taxes.

Yea, agree with all that. In my case, it works out even because I drive a reasonably fuel efficient car, and I also drive a lot. GA already knows how many miles a year I drive (emissions inspection) so it would be easy enough for it to be mileage driven.

The only other fee Georgia has is tag renewal at $20. They converted away from other ad valorem/property tax around 2013. Now it's collected as a sales tax at purchase.

[Irace86.2.0]

Has anyone actually driven one of these?

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/N1dveN6OeFA

[Clipdat]

Haha, there's one of those in my work parking lot now and it's even more hideous in person than it looks in that video.

[alex87f]

I actually think it looks quite good. The proportions are nice.

The guy looks like he's a bit full of it. He seems like a tall fella so he likely wouldn't fit well in a 5 series either.

182hp is more than enough for any sort of driving anyone might ever do in a family sedan, come on. 0-60 is 9 seconds so it won't rip your face off, but let's face it, nothing on the road needs to be any quicker than that. It's a family saloon, not a track car.

I mean there are criticisms to be made on hydrogen regarding how sustainably it's produced, or how the charging network isn't developed enough. But he doesn't seem to want to address those.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by alex87f

I actually think it looks quite good. The proportions are nice.

The guy looks like he's a bit full of it. He seems like a tall fella so he likely wouldn't fit well in a 5 series either.

182hp is more than enough for any sort of driving anyone might ever do in a family sedan, come on. 0-60 is 9 seconds so it won't rip your face off, but let's face it, nothing on the road needs to be any quicker than that. It's a family saloon, not a track car.

I mean there are criticisms to be made on hydrogen regarding how sustainably it's produced, or how the charging network isn't developed enough. But he doesn't seem to want to address those.

It's probably faster 0-600 miles than a Tesla though.