New ICE Vehicles Banned in California by 2035

[bcj]

95 Dodge Grand Caravan was an impeccable backwoods rally machine.
No quality deficiencies whatever for 19 years.
Only got the FR-S because it was a cheaper commuter price point on ferry tickets.

The thing I have about EVs is what happens at speed when the electrons stop suddenly and nothing else does ...
(hurtle by wireless can be disconcerting)

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

The year you were born, I was one year out of college, so a different experience obviously.

Lots of sedans from the 60's and 70's could carry a family of 5 or 6 comfortably with luggage in the trunk. Yes, they were boats, but they got the job done. Safety was probably questionable. I suppose it's also true that we didn't pack for a week by bringing everything we owned with us. We packed packed one suitcase for the parents, one for the kids on most trips.

We were also known to travel a couple hundred miles to the beach with 4 kids in the back of a pickup truck. I loved riding in the back. I rode the wheel hump if the weather was good, and against the cab if it was raining.

That safety thing always gets in the way of fun doesn't it?

I remember riding in jumper seats and in the back of pickups too. I remember stowing camping gear on the top of a Mercury Sable station wagon to go camping because the inside was also full. I remember tarped luggage racks routinely getting soaked from rain or falling apart on the highway when poorly secured.

My first car was a 61 Valiant, so bench seats could hold six in the car seat belted and eight in the car because everyone was young and skinny then.

In many ways, SUVs are probably safer and easier than how we did it, which is why they are so popular. It definitely gets in the way of fun. I miss bench seats. It was easier to do some things on those seats, more fun for sure.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

You're too young to remember honda odyssey transmission problems or the hideous quality of Chrysler minivans. There are other examples.

Were the transmissions unique to the Odyssey and not shared with other models?

My high school girlfriend's parents drove this Plymouth Voyager. During middle school, my mom's mechanic boyfriend drove a V8 Ford molester van with a bed in the back and shag carpet. My friend had the 80's Toyota Van in silver with swivel seats. Hideous but all functional. For families, few vehicles beat minivans.

[Irace86.2.0]

Minivans will make a huge comeback with autonomous driving. It won't matter if it is ugly because you won't be driving it. Why not have a more comfortable or entertaining space for a passenger space as the car drive you around?

[Capt Spaulding]

Speaking of moles-tar vans. My first “car” was a ‘68 Econoline 302 v8 window van with curtains, and 3” foam under shag bathroom carpet. It was a pain to maintain, but it always ran. And had other benefits.

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Minivans will make a huge comeback with autonomous driving. It

won't matter if it is ugly because you won't be driving

it. Why not have a more comfortable or entertaining space for a passenger space as the car drive you around?

Hi I don’t get this. If it’s hideously ugly I don’t want to be seen in or emerging from it - no matter who’s driving.

I occasionally consider truck camping. It might be fun to put a camper too on the bed of my old F150. But my boss would never let that happen. Minivans? I don’t think so.

Edit. Wife and I have concluded that, given where we live, driving 1000 miles to get to the beginning of interesting stuff is not fun.

So, the plan is to fly/rent/drive from here on out.

[Lantanafrs2]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Were the transmissions unique to the Odyssey and not shared with other models?

My high school girlfriend's parents drove this Plymouth Voyager. During middle school, my mom's mechanic boyfriend drove a V8 Ford molester van with a bed in the back and shag carpet. My friend had the 80's Toyota Van in silver with swivel seats. Hideous but all functional. For families, few vehicles beat minivans.

Odysseys used the same transmission on 4 and 6 cylinder vehicles. They couldn't handle the torque of the 6.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

Hi I don’t get this. If it’s hideously ugly I don’t want to be seen in or emerging from it - no matter who’s driving.

I occasionally consider truck camping. It might be fun to put a camper too on the bed of my old F150. But my boss would never let that happen. Minivans? I don’t think so.

Edit. Wife and I have concluded that, given where we live, driving 1000 miles to get to the beginning of interesting stuff is not fun.

So, the plan is to fly/rent/drive from here on out.

Remove the front seats and imagine a hollow van that is more like a living room with a TV and lounge chairs. It is like a limo. No one cares that a limo isn't an attractive vehicle when they are in the back loving life. The gen Z'ers and Alpha'gen really will care less as long as they can play their simulation in the back of the car while they get driven to school in the family van.

[Spuds]

EV real world testing shows on average 12% worse efficiency than the EPA estimates, while ICE real world testing shows on average 4% better efficiency than EPA estimates. Also, Tesla specifically inflates their range numbers but that's to be expected.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...s-sae-article/

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Spuds

EV real world testing shows on average 12% worse efficiency than the EPA estimates, while ICE real world testing shows on average 4% better efficiency than EPA estimates. Also, Tesla specifically inflates their range numbers but that's to be expected.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...s-sae-article/

They should have another test for people who drive aggressively fast like assholes because my average would probably be terrible.

Real world speeds would be good for testing all vehicles. It is kind of abnormal to publish highway vs city range like it is normal to quote range of a vehicle and its city/hwy gas mileage, but not its city and highway range, yet I suppose it could be useful. Since it is combined then maybe the city range under full regen is 450 and maybe the highway is 325 for a 400 mile range combined or something. Real world economy will depend on regen and someone’s right foot like it is for ICE vehicles, so I don’t know if it matters unless the discrepancy would be a deal breaker. I’m guessing it wouldn’t for the average buyer considering there is variability between driving styles and experiences anyways.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

They should have another test for people who drive aggressively fast like assholes because my average would probably be terrible.

That would be true for ICE as well. Maybe a new rating for both called the "assholery range"?

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Real world economy will depend on regen and someone’s right foot like it is for ICE vehicles, so I don’t know if it matters unless the discrepancy would be a deal breaker.

EV range has much more variability than ICE based on everything running off the battery. Add heat/cooling/running the entertainment system, running the windows up and down, are the seats on, are three passengers charging their phone, etc, etc, it all adds up.

I'm not an electrical engineer but I have wondered if a wind powered alternator would not provide more advantage than the parasitic drag it would produce if it were in the right place in the slipstream.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I'm not an electrical engineer but I have wondered if a wind powered alternator would not provide more advantage than the parasitic drag it would produce if it were in the right place in the slipstream.

No... Similarly, if you put a small generator on the front wheels, that won't generate net positive power either! I can't tell you how many people offered us these genius ideas when I was in the electric vehicle biz! And one of them was interviewing for an engineering job! He did not get it...

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

That would be true for ICE as well. Maybe a new rating for both called the "assholery range"

EV range has much more variability than ICE based on everything running off the battery. Add heat/cooling/running the entertainment system, running the windows up and down, are the seats on, are three passengers charging their phone, etc, etc, it all adds up.

I'm not an electrical engineer but I have wondered if a wind powered alternator would not provide more advantage than the parasitic drag it would produce if it were in the right place in the slipstream.

Just FYI, all that stuff that you mentioned that runs off the EV battery also runs off gasoline in ICE vehicles and affects their range and fuel efficiency. We just don’t consider it because we refuel quickly. This is true of speed, wind resistance, having windows open, etc. My wife’s Q5 warns us to close our windows at speed to reduce drag for better fuel economy.

Wind resistance could be used to power a generator, but it would need to be deployed during breaking, so an air duct would open to allow air through a restricter with a turbine for generating power. My guess is brake-based regen is far more efficient than air based regen that it wouldn’t be worth the effort.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

That would be true for ICE as well. Maybe a new rating for both called the "assholery range"?



EV range has much more variability than ICE based on everything running off the battery. Add heat/cooling/running the entertainment system, running the windows up and down, are the seats on, are three passengers charging their phone, etc, etc, it all adds up.

I'm not an electrical engineer but I have wondered if a wind powered alternator would not provide more advantage than the parasitic drag it would produce if it were in the right place in the slipstream.

Fun fact, wind turbine mounting structures load calculations are based on the blade area being a solid disc, as the impedance to airflow the blades provide is technically similar.

So next time you pass a wind farm, imagine sticking that large of a flat disc of material up on a stick in a windy area, when I can't even hold a 4x8' sheet of plywood up in my driveway!