Why 0° Camber?

[mav1178]

there's one other reason why there's little/no camber for a street car from the factory.

when you have camber your car tends to follow the crown of the road more, and also will have a tendency to tramline more.
So the last thing you want as a maker of a vehicle is for people to complain their car is all over the place when it is unmodified...

https://www.tirerack.com/upgrade-gar...ses-tramlining

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by mav1178

there's one other reason why there's little/no camber for a street car from the factory.

when you have camber your car tends to follow the crown of the road more, and also will have a tendency to tramline more.
So the last thing you want as a maker of a vehicle is for people to complain their car is all over the place when it is unmodified...

https://www.tirerack.com/upgrade-gar...ses-tramlining

Tramlining isn't a problem on my car with up to 4 degrees camber. Definitely 1.5 degrees stock would not be an issue in this regard...

Plenty of other performance cars have utilized *some* front camber. 0 degrees is pretty lame...

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Tramlining isn't a problem on my car with up to 4 degrees camber. Definitely 1.5 degrees stock would not be an issue in this regard...

Plenty of other performance cars have utilized *some* front camber. 0 degrees is pretty lame...

Mine started tramlining terribly once I went beyond 3

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Tramlining isn't a problem on my car with up to 4 degrees camber. Definitely 1.5 degrees stock would not be an issue in this regard...

Plenty of other performance cars have utilized *some* front camber. 0 degrees is pretty lame...

lame, yes.

I'm just stating the rationale of design engineers. Subaru is known to have their cars being conservative when it comes to vehicle dynamics.

it is what it is.

[foshjowler]

I don't find mine too bad at -4* of camber and 0 toe up front. Then again, my last car was a Camaro with 305s up front, so it would be hard to be that bad

[DarkSunrise]

I was actually surprised by the tramlining I got on the highway with stock suspension and -2.5 degrees front camber. The car followed grooves and ruts that I didnt even know existed before then haha. But I also swapped wheels/tires at the same time so I’m not sure which was the root cause. It was also one very specific section of highway and I haven’t noticed it as much on different roads.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by mr.whiskers

The next autocross event I went to after getting my 1.5 degree camber I did a 360 degree spin... I'd say for the street 0 camber is safer

Sucks to suck.
May as well play to the lowest common denominator for all activities. Wrap all kids in bubble wrap, and put a warning label on everything.

[mr.whiskers]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Sucks to suck.
May as well play to the lowest common denominator for all activities. Wrap all kids in bubble wrap, and put a warning label on everything.

Yea cause your first season of autox your became the best driver ever and never spun out

You are speaking from your own bubble. I bet a large portion of these cars will never see a track or an autocross course. Is it outrageous that they are being engineering with street driving in mind? I don't think so. You want some negative camber? Its super cheap and easy to get some crash bolts and there you go..

Is negative camber better for performance driving? Yes. Did I learn to drive with it after spinning out? Yes. Is 1.5 degree camber noticeable compared to 0 degree? Absolutely. Is 0 camber safer for street driving for an average driver who never done any performance driving? I am pretty sure thats a yes too

Thats all I am saying.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I was actually surprised by the tramlining I got on the highway with stock suspension and -2.5 degrees front camber. The car followed grooves and ruts that I didnt even know existed before then haha. But I also swapped wheels/tires at the same time so I’m not sure which was the root cause. It was also one very specific section of highway and I haven’t noticed it as much on different roads.

I'm sure tire wheel combo plays a role but I have noticed it on 225's on stock wheels with Conti ECS and Hankook v12's as well as 9 wide with a variety of 200TW tires from 235 to 245. Some roads are for sure better/worse then others.

[RACECAR go brrr!]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

No need for camber if you drive the speed limit on public roads.

There is no need for a 2-door sports car if you drive the speed limit on public roads either...

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by mr.whiskers

Yea cause your first season of autox your became the best driver ever and never spun out

You are speaking from your own bubble. I bet a large portion of these cars will never see a track or an autocross course. Is it outrageous that they are being engineering with street driving in mind? I don't think so. You want some negative camber? Its super cheap and easy to get some crash bolts and there you go..

Is negative camber better for performance driving? Yes. Did I learn to drive with it after spinning out? Yes. Is 1.5 degree camber noticeable compared to 0 degree? Absolutely. Is 0 camber safer for street driving for an average driver who never done any performance driving? I am pretty sure thats a yes too

Thats all I am saying.

It may be your first time spinning out but it won't be your last. It's a part of the learning experience. How else would you learn to drive on the edge?

[vindiesel]

Waiting for people to have a window sticker “0 degrees is lame”

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by mr.whiskers

Yea cause your first season of autox your became the best driver ever and never spun out

You are speaking from your own bubble. I bet a large portion of these cars will never see a track or an autocross course. Is it outrageous that they are being engineering with street driving in mind? I don't think so. You want some negative camber? Its super cheap and easy to get some crash bolts and there you go..

Is negative camber better for performance driving? Yes. Did I learn to drive with it after spinning out? Yes. Is 1.5 degree camber noticeable compared to 0 degree? Absolutely. Is 0 camber safer for street driving for an average driver who never done any performance driving? I am pretty sure thats a yes too

Thats all I am saying.

You didn't spin from 1.5 degrees of negative camber. -1.5° is a great street setup. Even on the stock tires. The end.

[Desertnate]

There are so many variables in play, I don't know if you could blame tramlining on just the alignment of the car. From what I've experienced, tire tread, tire width, and even the way the groves/ruts are formed can play a huge part.

Not long after I bought this car I was on a roadrip in it with my wife, somewhere near Kansas City I think... Regardless of the location, it was on long stretch of fairly new concrete interstate with the groves cut in the direction of travel. The problem was the groves were not cut in a uniform manner. One moment I'd be sailing along just fine, the next the car was squirming and tramlining all over the place and just as suddenly it would stop when I drove onto the next segment. In a totally different incident with a different car I remember driving to a tire shop on one set of tires with no problems. Driving the same road on the way home I got wiggles from tramlining. The only variable which changed was the tires.