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GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) General topics for the GR86 second-gen 86 |
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01-11-2023, 09:11 PM | #43 |
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I'll 30% disagree that cars aren't a good investment for making money. The cars of big number gains are out of the range most regular folks can afford, I will agree there. But there is a huge ebb and flow in the car market and requires a lot of tea leaf reading for sure, but there is money to be made. I don't think it's selling high dollar restored or restomod gems. Those enthusiasts are owners going to high end shops to restore/mod the car.
If it's a passion of the process, that's a little different and where I see the profit being most attainable for the regular working stiffs most of us are. I have a barber and a mailman that flip cars for a hobby. They don't do it exclusively for the money because they love to work on them and bring them back. The barber built a nice ford truck, added a 4 link, shortened the bed. Tons of serious mods. He did it with his son for the grandson, then went too far and made it too peppy to give to a teen like originally intended. But they do make money reviving a vehicle they found for bottom dollar and put back in a good sorted working order and back into the market. But these guys like the build, once done, they never fall in love with the rig. They simply drive their revival and start hunting for a new project. The challenge/process is what they're after. They enjoy the rigs for a while, usually a few months, then sell them for seed money for another neglected good find. The part I like of how they do this, is they often find a basket case and save it from crusher route. And once they build up their capital to better and better cars, they'll buy some niche rig in perfect condition from some literal grandma, enjoy it for a year, then just part with it and start another project. So if that's the way to invest in cars and trucks, I'm game. Otherwise, I have no intention of building time capsules to be opened later. Love the premise, but don't have the room or coin to make those investments. |
01-12-2023, 10:39 AM | #44 | |
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01-12-2023, 10:55 AM | #45 | |
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Even then, those calculations never account for hours. Leisure time has a dollar value greater than zero. Now if someone enjoys the work and all they want is to not lose money on the deal then the hours they spend restoring a car/truck are pure recreation and a break-even or even small profit is plenty of compensation. But from a true accounting perspective, those hours should be billed commensurate to the mechanic's skill and factored into the sunk cost of the vehicle. That adds up FAST. The person fixing/selling the car is willing to take a loss on their labor because they enjoy it, but it's still a loss. The cars that are "investments" are as you say, generally way outside the price range of average people. You need the perfect trifecta of something rare, something valuable enough to be difficult to attain, and something with iconic or cultural significance. Rarity, priced (at least) just out of reach of the common man, and some extra quality that makes it coveted. Those are the cars that set a pricing record each time they change hands. The reason expense is important is that small percent change in buying/selling price has to be applied to a number large enough that the difference in price exceeds the cost of keeping the car in good working order. Which the necessary rarity works against. I had a 1982 Honda Accord given to me by my grandparents in 2006 with about 76k miles on the odometer. Not once did I see another one on the road. (Saw an '83, a few 84's, etc.) It ran beautifully and my wife and I put about another 15k on it before we sold it. Ultimately we sold it because it was incredibly difficult to keep it running. There wasn't anything wrong with it really, but simple tune-ups and maintenance required specialists (fellow grey-hairs) who still remembered the pre-ECU days. Some toddler working at Autozone acted like I'd asked him for a leprechaun when I said I wanted to buy some vacuum hose. We got a good deal for it on the sale, but even though it was rare it wasn't expensive enough to appreciate faster than maintenance costs added up, and it lacked the "special something" needed to start adding zeroes to the price driven by demand. |
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01-12-2023, 11:20 AM | #46 | |||
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I'll keep this brief because I do not wish to drag this thread too far off topic. 1) The problem with ICE cars is the fuel, not the cars. 2) EV is the wrong answer to that problem. 3) A new fuel is the correct answer to the problem. 4) Nobody has to buy a new car. They just have to fill up at a different fuel station. 5) A new fuel in ICE cars = massive savings in cost for the consumer (see #4). 6) A new fuel in ICE cars = massive reduction of damage to the environment (although not necessarily reduction to zero damage). 7) The boy genius in not a genius. He's just a tech nerd manufacturing electric cars. Okay, that wasn't brief enough. I apologize. |
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01-12-2023, 11:40 AM | #47 | |
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01-12-2023, 03:29 PM | #48 | |
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-you cannot solve the local pollution of ICEs using another fuel (at least not an octane-based one, don't know about hydrogen) -you cannot solve the low efficiency of ICEs (which is capped at around 40%) using another fuel. Although any fuel that lowers the combustion temp will increase efficiency, you're still running an un-optimized heat pump to produce movement. See Carnot's law. -finally, the economics of synth fuels or hydrogen just don't work -yet- At the end of the day, we're comparing a tech that very much works and is hitting the market with fairly good success (and less and less government incentives), with another one that's been in the pipes for decades but hasn't been made into a marketable product yet. By the time we find a suitable fuel to "save" ICEs -if that's even viable-, improvements to fuel cells and EVs will likely have created a gap too large to justify using ICEs. I agree with your statement that people should just keep their cars longer (ICE or EV, for that matter), but it is what it is. Apparently, most people would rather keep up with the Joneses. |
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01-12-2023, 03:52 PM | #49 | |
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The fuel that I have in mind hasn't been invented yet. I'm dreaming a dream. The person who ultimately invents it will be the real boy genius.
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Sports cars for me are all about power-to-weight. Have you noticed that EV batteries are kinda heavy? Until they invent an EV battery that is the size of an iPhone battery, I'm not interested. |
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01-12-2023, 04:05 PM | #50 | |
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And unlike battery elements that have a shot at being recycled, it's hard to recycle burnt fuel so you must keep making more. On the weight part, well we're living in a world where an M3 weighs 4 000lbs in its lightest variant, so I'd say that ship sailed some time ago. |
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01-12-2023, 07:47 PM | #51 | |
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I thought you would be amused to hear that the Hummer battery (just the battery) weights 2923 lbs. That's a biscuit more than a GR86. I agree with you that we have a ways to go. However, I think we could have done more, and done better, during this interim period between now and zero emissions, by doing something other than EVs. Again, I apologize to the forum for shamelessly wandering off topic. |
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01-13-2023, 02:53 AM | #52 | |
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That said, on the hummer front, the $6K taillight is also a sign of what's wrong with the car industry... ... and LED headlamps are really expensive on the GR86, too. /backontopic |
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01-13-2023, 11:49 AM | #53 |
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As the thread title is a completely rhetorical question I don't think anything would really be off topic.
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01-13-2023, 12:15 PM | #54 |
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Then I’ll post this: Toyota Reveals Two AE86 Concepts With Hydrogen Combustion And Electric Power https://carbuzz.com/news/toyota-reve...electric-power
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01-13-2023, 12:56 PM | #55 |
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Carbon capture is already out there and shown as viable. But it is expensive, is net-ish zero, and not easily available.
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01-13-2023, 01:02 PM | #56 | |
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