Oil Pan Performance - What Features Do You Want?

[KillerBMotorsport]

FYI, we are working on a solution for the oil pickups in regard to silicone build up in the internal screen

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport

On the magnetic plugs... I know a LOT of people use them, but have you ever actually tested before/after when using one? A company reached out to us (one of the premier brands of magnetic plugs) wanting us to carry and promote their product, but we don't sell anything we don't test ourselves. So, they sent 3 units for us to test, and they went into 3 shop cars. We have oil analysis results on every new can we get, since break-in so we had a good baseline for 'normal'. Every car/engine had worse results when using the magnetic plugs. The results were so different, and across the board for all cars, that I assumed there was another factor at play like season changes or something. So, we repeated the test, but the results were the same. After pulling the plugs out of all the cars, the results went back to their normal range. This testing took ~18 months to complete. I sent our findings to the magnetic plug company and never even got a response back. In the meantime, I've come across other reports from places like Blackstone Labs that had very similar results.

Why? I don't know, but here's my best speculation... The magnetic plugs absolutely hold debris. There's no doubt about that, but that debris would normally be caught in the filter (OEM down to 5 micron). A magnet can only hold do much. It doesn't matter how strong your magnet is, there are only so many paper clips you can hang from it. When there is a good bit of debris on that magnet, and you start the car dead cold, some of that debris comes off with the cold thick oil. It then bypasses the oil filter, because the bypass opens at cold start. So, debris that normally would have been trapped by the oil filter, is now freely circulating through the engine, causing additional wear while the oil filter bypass is open. Again, I have zero factual evidence of this, it's just theory. The results were just so compelling and repeatable I feel others would want to hear about it.

Awesome data point, thanks for sharing!
(Quoting the whole thing so that I can refer to just this sub-story directly in the future )

[Scargod]

Would like to see more capacity. Does the 2021 and older baffle plate and pickup work on our new 2022 engine? I want those parts but don't know about fitment.

[mycrors7]

Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport

On the magnetic plugs... I know a LOT of people use them, but have you ever actually tested before/after when using one? A company reached out to us (one of the premier brands of magnetic plugs) wanting us to carry and promote their product, but we don't sell anything we don't test ourselves. So, they sent 3 units for us to test, and they went into 3 shop cars. We have oil analysis results on every new can we get, since break-in so we had a good baseline for 'normal'. Every car/engine had worse results when using the magnetic plugs. The results were so different, and across the board for all cars, that I assumed there was another factor at play like season changes or something. So, we repeated the test, but the results were the same. After pulling the plugs out of all the cars, the results went back to their normal range. This testing took ~18 months to complete. I sent our findings to the magnetic plug company and never even got a response back. In the meantime, I've come across other reports from places like Blackstone Labs that had very similar results.

Why? I don't know, but here's my best speculation... The magnetic plugs absolutely hold debris. There's no doubt about that, but that debris would normally be caught in the filter (OEM down to 5 micron). A magnet can only hold do much. It doesn't matter how strong your magnet is, there are only so many paper clips you can hang from it. When there is a good bit of debris on that magnet, and you start the car dead cold, some of that debris comes off with the cold thick oil. It then bypasses the oil filter, because the bypass opens at cold start. So, debris that normally would have been trapped by the oil filter, is now freely circulating through the engine, causing additional wear while the oil filter bypass is open. Again, I have zero factual evidence of this, it's just theory. The results were just so compelling and repeatable I feel others would want to hear about it.

wait wait wait so youre telling me my fancy $15 Project Mu magnetic drain plug that no one will ever see is actually causing more harm than good?

[KillerBMotorsport]

Originally Posted by Scargod

Would like to see more capacity. Does the 2021 and older baffle plate and pickup work on our new 2022 engine? I want those parts but don't know about fitment.

More capacity is definitely on our short list.

I don't know on the baffle plate, but the pickup is VERY different.

Has anyone got any conclusive data showing those horizontal baffle plates doing anything? From EJ stuff the almost more often do more harm than good, with some OEM baffles performing better.

Originally Posted by mycrors7

wait wait wait so youre telling me my fancy $15 Project Mu magnetic drain plug that no one will ever see is actually causing more harm than good?

I'm telling you our super fancy $35 magnetic drain plug did more harm than good; tested twice, on three different cars. I have no data other than that product but based on our testing and similar results others have had, there's a pretty good probability it may hold true for all.

[KillerBMotorsport]

For anyone curious, the lower oil pan holds 2.6 quarts.

The remaining 2.7 quarts is in the upper pan.

[Desertnate]

Originally Posted by Jianlun

5. Something light enough (cast alu like your EJ20/25 one) and doesnt rust after years.

Just not plastic like VAG uses on their 2.0L engines!

Loved my GTI, but I was always worried about the plastic oil pan. So many ways it can go wrong for somebody.

[Stonehorsw]

Clearance and features to add heat shield.

[mycrors7]

Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport

I'm telling you our super fancy $35 magnetic drain plug did more harm than good; tested twice, on three different cars. I have no data other than that product but based on our testing and similar results others have had, there's a pretty good probability it may hold true for all.

the internet has bamboozled me once more!

[Tr4ck_day]

If I can get a little more confidence that I'm not going to smoke my motor in a long high speed corner, then I'll buy it. Don't need anything fancy, just a little better baffling and an improved pickup and you've got yourself a customer.

[KillerBMotorsport]

Originally Posted by Desertnate

Just not plastic like VAG uses on their 2.0L engines!

It's the way of the future! Many manufacturers have made this switch, and I was apprehensive at first too, but if the design is good you have nothing to worry about.

While we do make/use plastic parts, and printed plastic parts for testing, I don't see a pan being one of them because we do so much with the rally guys, and they favor no-fail durability.

Although, I'd assume the BRZ guys are more about weight savings and performance capabilities. Plus, there is a belly pan to offer some protection. In the years I've gone to rally events, I've only seen one BRZ so maybe this version does not need to prioritize indestructability?

Originally Posted by mycrors7

the internet has bamboozled me once more!

Afraid so. Happens to the best of us.

Originally Posted by Tr4ck_day

If I can get a little more confidence that I'm not going to smoke my motor in a long high speed corner, then I'll buy it. Don't need anything fancy, just a little better baffling and an improved pickup and you've got yourself a customer.

Absolutely must have improved functionality!

[Desertnate]

Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport

It's the way of the future! Many manufacturers have made this switch, and I was apprehensive at first too, but if the design is good you have nothing to worry about.

Impacts always bothered me, but there were tales of the area around the drain plug cracking when someone went full-gorilla and wrenched the plug rather then just making it snug. That's what really made me cringe since I can't always do my own oil changes.

Instead of just stripping some threads, it became a pan replacement. Seemed to be more of a problem with Audi A3/S3 owners than with GTI's...not sure why.

And while we're on the topic of plastics, the issues with the plastic impellers on the water pumps is a fun one too. Later re-designed to be metal. But that's a story for a different day.

[KillerBMotorsport]

Originally Posted by Desertnate

Impacts always bothered me, but there were tales of the area around the drain plug cracking when someone went full-gorilla and wrenched the plug rather then just making it snug. That's what really made me cringe since I can't always do my own oil changes.

You would hate the 911 pans/plugs then. VERY wide, behind the rear wheels (vulnerable to curbs and speed bumps), glowing read headers just 1" away, and the drain plug (that's also plastic) is a 1/4 turn plug.

I don't mind the pan, but that 1/4 turn drain plug that you use a straight screwdriver to tighten makes me cringe at every oil change.

[KillerBMotorsport]

What kind of price range would you guys consider as reasonable?

A simple product designed to be cost effective, is going to be nowhere near the same cost as one designed with performance as the top priority and feature rich.

Where we end up on this scale could mean a final product in the $400-to-$600 range. Looking for feedback on what the majority here considers to be a priority.