08-29-2022, 02:46 PM | #1093 | |
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Anyway, the temperatures are apparently the cause and the CO2 is the effect, not the other way around. |
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08-29-2022, 02:57 PM | #1094 |
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesta...h=c5f0c32485dd
Listen, it's easy for both of us to say, "I'm the one being fair, the other guy is biased and unwilling to be open-minded". We're both accusing each other of the same. At this point, we're both hitting a wall pretty hard. I don't see much fruit in continuing, as this is gonna go on forever |
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08-29-2022, 03:03 PM | #1095 | ||||
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Their model demonstrates a causative correlation of human produced GHG and the increase in global temperatures, while also showing that there is an inverse relationship throughout the geologic record, where naturally rising temperatures lead to an increase in CO2/methane emissions. Again, this is very clear, so what are you confused about? Quote:
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08-29-2022, 03:06 PM | #1096 | |
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08-29-2022, 03:34 PM | #1097 | ||
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Their model shows human emissions are causing global warming, while simultaneously showing past warming caused a rise in natural emissions. If that is confusing to you how that could be the case then please read the paper closer. Quote:
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08-29-2022, 03:56 PM | #1098 | |
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Explain to me your logic why you accept finding A and reject finding B - both by the same author in the same paper. |
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08-29-2022, 05:42 PM | #1099 | |||||
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Man, you are struggling, and I don't know why. I'm not disagreeing with anything the author is saying. You are conflating two ideas and misrepresenting the findings, seemingly unintentionally. They are saying that their model demonstrates that the anthropomorphic emissions are causing a rise in CO2, which is directly causing a rise in global temperatures. Their model excludes natural causes from being a possibility. This is exactly the type of paper you were requesting. Their model also shows that the past changes in temperature proceeded a rise in CO2; ie, in the past 800,000 years, when the temperature would naturally rise (over a vast amount of time) this would lead to a subsequent rise in CO2, which is exactly the opposite of what their model showed is happening now, where CO2 is the driving force behind the rise in global temperatures (see below). Quote:
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4761980/ Again, this isn't hard to follow if you read the paper or even a full paragraph. With a PhD, I would expect an easy comprehension of the above paragraph from you. I also would expect a lay person to understand that what is true over thousands or tens of thousands of years is not necessarily true over decades. Is that what you are struggling with? The power of science is in its ability to make applications and to make models for prediction, so that when scientists go make observations, surprise surprise, they find what the model predicted. The model these scientists made corroborates the past, while explaining current events. Got it?
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08-29-2022, 06:21 PM | #1100 | |
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I'm sure the author would welcome open, transparent and public comments on their own interpretation of the data, but such a move risks the challenger appearing a fool if they don't actually understand the data. |
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08-29-2022, 06:26 PM | #1101 |
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08-29-2022, 06:45 PM | #1102 | |
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08-30-2022, 07:46 AM | #1103 |
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@Irace86.2.0 and @Spuds have covered this already, my 0.02:
I am by no means a climate science expert, but even I know that over *geologic time scales* (10s of thousands to 10s-100s of millions of years) temp rise has preceded CO2 rise (which then further amplifies temp rise). That is not what is happening now, now we have added and continue to add CO2 to the atmosphere, and that is resulting in the temperature rise we are currently experiencing. And the higher temps are increasing water vapor in the atmosphere which further adds to warming. But the root cause that we've increased CO2 from 280ppm to 420ppm. |
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08-30-2022, 07:51 AM | #1104 |
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His article proves him wrong on my point #4.
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08-30-2022, 07:55 AM | #1105 | |
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08-30-2022, 08:28 AM | #1106 |
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Do you agree with your article in its entirety?
You have said a lot of intellectual dishonesty/inability, ideological agenda, evidence denier, etc. Yet you fail or refuse to measure yourself by the same standards. Here are some of your famous quotes so far: said, "climate change can lead to an area getting colder or warmer in extremes or extremes in weather anomalies, even if the global averages are higher", yet didn't have an answer to the paper I linked. talked about all the evidence and counter-evidence, but yet said, "Science doesn't prove. It shows, suggest or demonstrates. You should know that. Prove is a "four letter word" in science." said, "This is far from debatable. This is established science that is only getting more and more refined", while you couldn't defend the 1 link you eventually posted. said, "Hypothesis leads to studies (observations), which eventually lead to models to explain processes." Incorrect. An observation leads to questions, and then theories, and then design of an experiment that addresses the hypothesis. accused me of cherry-picking, yet you are actively doing this yourself. said, "They were just presenting the data from peer reviewed journals in a format that was digestible for politicians", and, "you are quoting an organization and appealing to evidence stemming from them", yet clinging to IPCC reports. said, "I agree that providing evidence from the very papers used by chipmunk that he was citing as reliable is very reasonable and should be compelling to chipmunk if he is being intellectually honest", and "Why don’t you actually read the whole paper? It is only a few pages", yet you didn't even comprehend the abstract, nor do you understand what paleontological means. besides veiled ad hominem, you committed basic logical fallacy of leading the question, and quoted, "the public has become polarized over fundamental questions such as human-caused global warming. Communication strategies to reduce polarization rarely address the underlying cause: ideologically-driven misinformation." |
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