Any good reason to stick with 1st Gen?

[dragoontwo]

Originally Posted by Ash_89

Are the steering feel comparisons taking into account similar tyres in terms of compound grip levels, construction (sidewall stiffness) and dimensions?

Mostly, no.

[Rustyoid]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

TL;DW - comparing a base 2013 FRS (that he owned for 9 years) to a base 2022 GR86:
[LIST][*]Steering feel is worse in the new gen, goes as far as "substantially worse"

The FRS is lightly modded, with header, exhaust, tune and wider wheels and tires (245 MPS4S).

???????????????

This is so frustrating. Many "reviewers" saying the steering feel is worse on the new car, when comparing to a 1st gen with 245s. First off, stock for stock dummies. Second, 245s completely change the steering feel, and in my opinion make it WORSE. It makes it heavier and less responsive which is the exact opposite of what the car should be (imo). Now if someone likes heavier steering I understand. However that doesn't mean the new car is worse because you like the way 245s feel. Try out the same 245s on the new car and make a fair comparison.

Like seriously, on THIS PLATFORM, anyone doing a comparison and NOT using the exact same wheel/tire setup is just a terrible reviewer. Thats the most important part of the car 1000%

[Teseo]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

My first thought on this was "It's a 9 year old car have you bothered to have the A/C serviced?"

I went to the A/C shop and now it blows more cold than new. Best $80 bucks spent

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by RToyo86

Toyota seems to have taken a harder stance on tuning at least from my observation. The new supras haven't been cracked yet either.

Only thing worse than a pop tune bro is a clout chasing pop tune bro.. I won't even drive near the hotboi Friday/Saturday meet spots anymore. Police having a field day ticketing kids and anything that looks modified.

and honestly, i'm a little concerned to even be seen in my car anywhere near chicago after this past weekend... and i'm stock tuned with a stock exhaust...

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2022/8/...weekend-august

[Samba86]

Originally Posted by Rustyoid

???????????????

This is so frustrating. Many "reviewers" saying the steering feel is worse on the new car, when comparing to a 1st gen with 245s. First off, stock for stock dummies. Second, 245s completely change the steering feel, and in my opinion make it WORSE. It makes it heavier and less responsive which is the exact opposite of what the car should be (imo). Now if someone likes heavier steering I understand. However that doesn't mean the new car is worse because you like the way 245s feel. Try out the same 245s on the new car and make a fair comparison.

Like seriously, on THIS PLATFORM, anyone doing a comparison and NOT using the exact same wheel/tire setup is just a terrible reviewer. Thats the most important part of the car 1000%

I compared a stock ’22 BRZ on PS4 tires back to back against my stock (minty fresh 15K mile) ’13 86 on the same rubber. I’m not reviewer - I haven’t driven a wide selection of performance cars, but I found the difference in steering feel to be striking.

There are all kinds of reviewers on the internet - some literally parroting marketing materials, or even better - praising the '22 for being lighter than the previous gen (objectively false) because of the new aluminium hood . The two I trust the most are the Topher (co-founded Winding Road mag, and the long term owner of a '14 BRZ, which he traded in for a '22 model) and SavageGeese (longterm owners of the 86 platform and currently running a GR86).

From their most recent vids on the '22:

TheTopher SI vs 2022 BRZ

- '22 BRZ steering has "given up some feedback for more assistance" compared with gen 1
- '22 BRZ steering is "lighter and vaguer" than gen 1
- Civic SI steering is "heavier and it has more feel than the BRZ"

Savage Geese GR86 Longterm update
- How is steering different from gen 1? "I don’t know what they broke."
- They changed the EPS but now it "feels like every other car"
- Changing casters might increase weight "but I don't think it will fix it"

These guys have run and tracked both gens on all manner of tires and setups. They know these cars and how they perform against their peers as well as anyone. It's not a beat up.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by soundman98

and honestly, i'm a little concerned to even be seen in my car anywhere near chicago after this past weekend... and i'm stock tuned with a stock exhaust...

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2022/8/...weekend-august

Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

[ROFL it's Waffle]

My biggest reason for going 2nd Gen is I cannot find a 1st Gen car in my area that isn't:

1. Beat to hell.
2. Modified with tasteless body mods and/or extreme camber .
3. Unmodified with less than 170,000 miles.
4. Price of a used Gen 1 with 74,000 miles is close enough to a brand new Gen 2 with 4 miles.
5. Who was the previous owner? Did they do preventative maintenance? Did they beat on it?

I personally like the looks of the Gen 2, and if you see one in person I think they look better than the Gen 1. It's kind of like when the C8 Corvette came out. The pictures made it look great from 3 sides, but in person it's an amazing design from all angles.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ROFL it's Waffle

My biggest reason for going 2nd Gen is I cannot find a 1st Gen car in my area that isn't:

1. Beat to hell.
2. Modified with tasteless body mods and/or extreme camber .
3. Unmodified with less than 170,000 miles.
4. Price of a used Gen 1 with 74,000 miles is close enough to a brand new Gen 2 with 4 miles.
5. Who was the previous owner? Did they do preventative maintenance? Did they beat on it?

I personally like the looks of the Gen 2, and if you see one in person I think they look better than the Gen 1. It's kind of like when the C8 Corvette came out. The pictures made it look great from 3 sides, but in person it's an amazing design from all angles.

Looks remain subjective and the whole "if you see one in person" thing is meaningless other than on an individual basis.
I have seen many now and they remain ugly as hell to me. No angles of lighting is going to change that.

[ROFL it's Waffle]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Looks remain subjective and the whole "if you see one in person" thing is meaningless other than on an individual basis.
I have seen many now and they remain ugly as hell to me. No angles of lighting is going to change that.

Looks are absolutely subjective. I don't think the Miata looks all that great either (I'd even say the same of the S2000, certain angles of that made the car look wider in the front than the rear), but it's hilarious fun to drive.

Going back to OP's question though, local availability is a major factor for me (might not be for many of you). I cannot find anything newer than 2014 in my area that are not one of my 5 gripes above.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ROFL it's Waffle

Looks are absolutely subjective. I don't think the Miata looks all that great either (I'd even say the same of the S2000, certain angles of that made the car look wider in the front than the rear), but it's hilarious fun to drive.

Going back to OP's question though, local availability is a major factor for me (might not be for many of you). I cannot find anything newer than 2014 in my area that are not one of my 5 gripes above.

I think the availability issues are pretty much everywhere so ya if you want one at all then new is your best bet.
If I personally had to go get a new car today it would not be a 2nd gen though since I truly could never get past the looks of the things. No doubt they are a "better" all around car but the damned styling (interior and exterior) kills it for me.

At this point in automotive history I don't know what the hell I would replace the 86 with since anything I would find suitable is unattainable or discontinued.

[Petah78]

For me, the main difference in looks between Gen1 and Gen2 is that i find the looks of the Gen1 to be more original (unqiue) whereas the Gen2 car is like a mix/match of existing designs. Gen1 is also more angular where Gen2 is more curvy. I overall do not mind the looks of either Gens but i do find the looks of the Gen1 car to be dated. Looks is secondary anyways, it's all about the driving experience.

If the market was in a "normal" state, i would have never gotten into a Gen2. I was very happy with the Gen1 but with the inflated used car prices AND being able to score a Gen2 car at MSRP, it was really a no brainer. More power, more warranty, more modern, more RTV LOL with min cost. Having said that, the added power of the Gen2 REALLY heightens the 86 experience and that is MY pinion. All this talk about Gen1 being more "raw" but a Gen1.5 (17up) cars are plenty "soft" already compared to Gen1. But let's not hurt anymore horses.....

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Petah78

For me, the main difference in looks between Gen1 and Gen2 is that i find the looks of the Gen1 to be more original (unqiue) whereas the Gen2 car is like a mix/match of existing designs. Gen1 is also more angular where Gen2 is more curvy. I overall do not mind the looks of either Gens but i do find the looks of the Gen1 car to be dated. Looks is secondary anyways, it's all about the driving experience.

If the market was in a "normal" state, i would have never gotten into a Gen2. I was very happy with the Gen1 but with the inflated used car prices AND being able to score a Gen2 car at MSRP, it was really a no brainer. More power, more warranty, more modern, more RTV LOL with min cost. Having said that, the added power of the Gen2 REALLY heightens the 86 experience and that is MY pinion. All this talk about Gen1 being more "raw" but a Gen1.5 (17up) cars are plenty "soft" already compared to Gen1. But let's not hurt anymore horses.....

To me it boils down to a simple statement that the Gen 1 (including the facelift) looks more old school and "classic" sportscar like.
The GRs more of a modern take with far too aggressive almost industrial lines for what the car is (even with the moderate power increase).

Ironically I would rule out the new WRX for the very opposite reason. They took a car with aggressive and industrial lines and dumbed it down to a basic sedan with a scoop and some cladding. The heavy and busy look suited the the WRX but has no place on a sports car.

[ROFL it's Waffle]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

If I personally had to go get a new car today it would not be a 2nd gen though since I truly could never get past the looks of the things.

You did it right by buying one of the last model-years when most of the nonsense is engineered out.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Petah78

For me, the main difference in looks between Gen1 and Gen2 is that i find the looks of the Gen1 to be more original (unqiue) whereas the Gen2 car is like a mix/match of existing designs. Gen1 is also more angular where Gen2 is more curvy. I overall do not mind the looks of either Gens but i do find the looks of the Gen1 car to be dated.

Not sure how more original/unique could at the same time be called "dated" compared to a design that looks like a "mix/match of existing designs". I guess give me the dated but original design every day.

Like @Tcoat, I would not buy a Gen2. Since there is nothing in the marketplace right now in the Sports Car category I would buy, I'm going in a different direction and going full Grandpa mode.