Today I Learned...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by cjd

I understand half the form factor. It's a wagon with a lift kit.
The wagon makes sense. The lift kit I don't understand.
To be fair, I think the battery weight lets you drive EV SUVs hard without feeling tippy and otherwise changes the dynamics - and the extra height is helpful with battery layout. But otherwise they feel really crappy at highway speeds to me. The lift is to go off road. The truckishness may be to haul a trailer. But neither are reality for most, and slow is much safer for both too.

I can totally get behind confusion about sports cars for most. I just think the SUV should be similarly niche.

Could go back to the minivan era that I sort of skipped.
The height does help in winter but yes it is overkill for most of the year.
I have never driven an electric SUV yet so have no idea how they actually drive. Distinctly possible that had I convinced her to try one I may have been the one to change my mind.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Could go back to the minivan era that I sort of skipped.
The height does help in winter but yes it is overkill for most of the year.
I have never driven an electric SUV yet so have no idea how they actually drive. Distinctly possible that had I convinced her to try one I may have been the one to change my mind.

Yeah, I haven't driven an electric SUV either... think my previous comment did make it sound like I had. The regular ones freak me out though. The driving experience on electric though... even the Volt is just fun on-throttle and feels anemic once the battery has been run through (though it's a boat still as far as handling... decent for what it is though). For battery stuff, it's easy to actually plan out when/where you'd run into trouble, and then evaluate whether you'd *actually* run into trouble by checking charging options along the way. It's a real problem still, to be sure, unless you have a Tesla. With both longer range than most others on the market and a MUCH more stable charging network, that's still the best buy if you DO have range considerations off home-base.

Minivans make sense to me. They're actually incredibly sensible, just have an image problem. The lower deck makes for much easier loading/unloading vs most SUVs capable of actually hauling stuff (the micro/mini SUVs obviously don't have that kind of room). And they're easier to get into/out of than most SUVs too. I think there's a middle ground but IIRC even getting into a Subaru Crosstrek I think had a little hop UP to the seat.
I owned a truck at one time, and it was a sensible thing - 4cyl RWD extended cab S10 with good fuel economy, plenty of space to schlep stuff as an art student... but it sat pretty low and wasn't much fun to drive. Pure function. Minivan would have done well too but they were out of my price range. Growing up we always had a full size van. Those freak me out too, honestly...
If I run out of fun car options, I'll have a lovely empty garage spot. Or maybe something purely functional will eventually show up on the market and the hobbies I spend the most time on will shift. Whee.

[Spuds]

My thoughts, SUVs came about because everyone who has kids now grew up with the shitty minivans in the 80s and 90s. It was a sign of giving up and being practical/cheap. On the other hand, people who drove SUVs were interesting. And everyone wants to feel like they are cool.

[Sapphireho]

SUV is just the modern station wagon. The generation that grew up with station wagons were too cool for station wagons, but boy were they practical, so they lifted them and gave them a different name.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

SUV is just the modern station wagon. The generation that grew up with station wagons were too cool for station wagons, but boy were they practical, so they lifted them and gave them a different name.

That's a better way of saying it.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Could go back to the minivan era that I sort of skipped. The height does help in winter but yes it is overkill for most of the year.
I have never driven an electric SUV yet so have no idea how they actually drive. Distinctly possible that had I convinced her to try one I may have been the one to change my mind.

I was going to mention the minivan phase. To me the Chevy Astro was the perfect family car. It wasn't technically a minivan, you could load it with up to 6 people comfortably, 7 if the three in the back were kids, it was easy to get in and out of, and it would tow about 6,000 pounds without breathing hard. We had two of them with over 500,000 miles between them.

I've driven the Mach E, at speed. It drove well, and handled nicely (no FRS but was fun).

Originally Posted by Spuds

My thoughts, SUVs came about because everyone who has kids now grew up with the shitty minivans in the 80s and 90s. It was a sign of giving up and being practical/cheap. On the other hand, people who drove SUVs were interesting. And everyone wants to feel like they are cool.

Yep, hit the nail on the head.

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

SUV is just the modern station wagon. The generation that grew up with station wagons were too cool for station wagons, but boy were they practical, so they lifted them and gave them a different name.

I would say a crossover is more station wagon than an SUV. SUV is a truck with a bed cover, crossover is a "fat stationwagon". Jay Leno, in his review of the Lyriq calls it that, and the GM engineer cringes because, you know, marketing.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

My impression, from limited reading, is that the first gen Leaf was a pos. That is, the battery had zero cooling and after a couple of years the range dropped significantly.My impression, from limited reading, is that the first gen Leaf was a pos. That is, the battery had zero cooling and after a couple of years the range dropped significantly.

i'm aware. however, my standard commute is 3 miles a day. 15miles at most.

it stands to be the cheapest way for me to get into an ev while still having something large enough to have 4 wheels and air bags.

nissan's otherwise run on sucking the soul and will to live out of their owners, so i'm also aware of lifespan costs to owning one

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

She would have wanted a larger SUV EV. They have much better ranges.
We have all sorts of charging infrastructure popping up all over around here. At they rate they are appearing it will just be another year or two and that part of the argument against them will be gone.

it's great they're putting all sorts of effort into building the charging stations. now if only they'd put some effort into maintaining them...

Originally Posted by Spuds

My thoughts, SUVs came about because everyone who has kids now grew up with the shitty minivans in the 80s and 90s. It was a sign of giving up and being practical/cheap. On the other hand, people who drove SUVs were interesting. And everyone wants to feel like they are cool.

yep. and that made way for this abomination:


all of the features with none of the convienence!

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I was going to mention the minivan phase. To me the Chevy Astro was the perfect family car.

i as going to mention the astro. 100% agree. it was one of gm's best offerings. the dodge variant is still highly sought after in japan.

[Sapphireho]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I would say a crossover is more station wagon than an SUV. SUV is a truck with a bed cover, crossover is a "fat stationwagon". Jay Leno, in his review of the Lyriq calls it that, and the GM engineer cringes because, you know, marketing.

My 1994 Rodeo was a lifted 4x4 station wagon. That was before the terms "suv" and "crossover" ever existed.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

My 1994 Rodeo was a lifted 4x4 station wagon. That was before the terms "suv" and "crossover" ever existed.

those were only cool in 2-door versions!

[86-75309]

For me, the thing that would make me consider a taller vehicle like a crossover, lifted wagon or an SUV is the advantage of eye height, of having a better view of what's around me. I often get boxed in by trucks, SUVs, minivans to the point where I can only guess what is happening beyond them. I'd like to know what's going on past the nearest vehicle. Another potential advantage to having eyes farther from the pavement is keeping them out of the glare zone of headlights. My 63-year-old eyes don't like being blinded.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by 86-75309

For me, the thing that would make me consider a taller vehicle like a crossover, lifted wagon or an SUV is the advantage of eye height, of having a better view of what's around me. I often get boxed in by trucks, SUVs, minivans to the point where I can only guess what is happening beyond them. I'd like to know what's going on past the nearest vehicle. Another potential advantage to having eyes farther from the pavement is keeping them out of the glare zone of headlights. My 63-year-old eyes don't like being blinded.

These are all the reasons my wife likes the larger SUVs.

[86-75309]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

These are all the reasons my wife likes the larger SUVs.

Unfortunately, I also like driving a vehicle with a manual transmission. These days, the only "taller" vehicle that I'm aware of that offers one is a Jeep Wrangler, and I'm not an off-roader.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by 86-75309

Unfortunately, I also like driving a vehicle with a manual transmission. These days, the only "taller" vehicle that I'm aware of that offers one is a Jeep Wrangler, and I'm not an off-roader.

Toyota Tacoma offers it as well