Potential Cause of rumored GR86’s blown engine? Seal packing(RTV) was peeled off

[removedonut]

Originally Posted by Aon

This is a response received by one of the journalists from Toyota:

GR86 owners rn:

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by removedonut

GR86 owners rn:

Yeah that's some of the most liberal language I've seen from a car manufacturer re. track days. We'll see how this plays out in practice since they say they'll evaluate on a case-by-case basis.

[BioRebel]

Has Subaru issued a statement at all about BRZ warranty coverage?

[22 BRZ]

Originally Posted by BioRebel

Has Subaru issued a statement at all about BRZ warranty coverage?

Or the time frame that the problem exists for. I really hope they can be clear that it's fixed as of today, or a date in the past, so that the replacement engines won't have the same issue. Wishful thinking probably...

I'll ask my dealer next time I'm there but I doubt much will have made it to their level this early.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by 22 BRZ

Or the time frame that the problem exists for. I really hope they can be clear that it's fixed as of today, or a date in the past, so that the replacement engines won't have the same issue. Wishful thinking probably...

I'll ask my dealer next time I'm there but I doubt much will have made it to their level this early.

It seems so far, at least all that I can remember (including the one my driving instructor told me about from this past weekend) have been 11/21-12/21 production range.

Based on what I saw on the MySubaru page for my '23 for example, it said July 12th it was going through the quality control phase. So I'm assuming that means it was built early last month and is likely somewhere in the Pacific on a boat since my ETA is Aug 28th.

[FR-S2GT86]

Michigan Lemon Law Attorney, Steve Lehto gives his thoughts on the subject.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86

Michigan Lemon Law Attorney, Steve Lehto gives his thoughts on the subject.

TL;DW

Cliffs?

[bcj]

He read out the article with extra hemming an heehawing.

[gcmak]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

TL;DW

Cliffs?

We can only hope he makes a follow-up email because he ends this one with the fact that he doesn't know if they ended up looking at the engine at all. So he's behind on evidence already presented to us. The video presents nothing new to anyone who has read the warranty disclaimers.

The overarching point he made is that for ages dealers and oems deny claims based on anything they can latch onto - having a decal of a track on your car, or instructing you to only use your car a certain way. In so few words as possible, if things don't go your way, hire a lawyer such as himself.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by removedonut

GR86 owners rn:

More of a bronze ticket.
Pay close attention to what he said:
"in National Auto Sport Association (NASA) High Performance Driving Events (HPDE) or similar NASA instructional events provided complimentary to GR owners"

He was very specific. He did not say "Hey everybody run out and do whatever events you feel like".
You wait, there will still be restrictions. They will just be worded differently. They also will pay much more attention to the data the car has (they all ready let the cat out of the bag that they can) and over revs, running hot, heavy Gs, and so on will still give them an out. Saying "oh those things happen on the track" won't save you. They said you could participate not "abuse" the car.
Y'all dancing in the streets prematurely I fear.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by gcmak

We can only hope he makes a follow-up email because he ends this one with the fact that he doesn't know if they ended up looking at the engine at all. So he's behind on evidence already presented to us. The video presents nothing new to anyone who has read the warranty disclaimers.

The overarching point he made is that for ages dealers and oems deny claims based on anything they can latch onto - having a decal of a track on your car, or instructing you to only use your car a certain way. In so few words as possible, if things don't go your way, hire a lawyer such as himself.

Pretty sure that at least two of the One Post Wonders that jumped into this thread were Ambulance (well... tow truck) Chasers looking for business.

[gcmak]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

More of a bronze ticket.
Pay close attention to what he said:
"in National Auto Sport Association (NASA) High Performance Driving Events (HPDE) or similar NASA instructional events provided complimentary to GR owners"

He was very specific. He did not say "Hey everybody run out and do whatever events you feel like".
You wait, there will still be restrictions. They will just be worded differently. They also will pay much more attention to the data the car has (they all ready let the cat out of the bag that they can) and over revs, running hot, heavy Gs, and so on will still give them an out. Saying "oh those things happen on the track" won't save you. They said you could participate not "abuse" the car.
Y'all dancing in the streets prematurely I fear.

Devil's in the details and our ECUs have a lot of details.

When my axle blew on the street on my supra (wheel hop occurred), I was also running A052s. Lucky for me, that's still a street legal tire and I was running them on the factory rims at factory size, and had no suspension modifications in the rear that could change the suspension/axle angles in the rear. It would have been a different conversation if even one of those parameters were different.

My guess is that Toyota, at best, is going to cover stock cars that attend an HPDE and other un-timed sanctioned event, since the car was designed within a budget and spec to handle certain forces and stresses. Just my thought though and I do think you're right about the celebrations. Yes it's a win to acknowledge but we wait to see if wide sweeping changes will happen and if they even happen in favor of more motorsport activities.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by gcmak

Devil's in the details and our ECUs have a lot of details.

When my axle blew on the street on my supra (wheel hop occurred), I was also running A052s. Lucky for me, that's still a street legal tire and I was running them on the factory rims at factory size, and had no suspension modifications in the rear that could change the suspension/axle angles in the rear. It would have been a different conversation if even one of those parameters were different.

My guess is that Toyota, at best, is going to cover stock cars that attend an HPDE and other un-timed sanctioned event, since the car was designed within a budget and spec to handle certain forces and stresses. Just my thought though and I do think you're right about the celebrations. Yes it's a win to acknowledge but we wait to see if wide sweeping changes will happen and if they even happen in favor of more motorsport activities.

Was curious so looked up the GR Yaris warranty info.

And here’s the additional information specific to GR Yaris track day warranty:

"The use of the vehicle for track days or similar events does not invalidate the vehicle’s warranty.
Any potential failure during a track day or similar event is not specifically excluded. A manufacturing defect within the warranty period will be supported as normal.
However, as per the standard warranty policy and procedure, failure resulting from either of the following would not represent a manufacturing defect and therefore would not be supported within the terms of the warranty:
– The use of non-approved performance enhancements or modifications.
– Neglect, abuse or misuse."


Expect about the same wording will show up for the 86.
Sort of summarizes as "We don't care if your track it BUT"
They will be watching very very closely. There better be a very obvious manufacturing defect (like ummmm sealant in the pickup maybe?) to even try to claim warranty. I don't see this changing most decisions.
The Q&A is informative.

https://mag.toyota.co.uk/gr-yaris-track-day-warranty/

[Spektyr]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

They already do say not to do it!


See if your eyes are fast enough to actually read it.

I wonder though, since it says "professional drive on closed course, do not attempt" the intent could be interpreted as "don't drive like this if you're not a professional driver on a closed course because it could cause a car accident" rather than "we'll deny your warranty if our manufacturing defects kill your car and we can determine that you ever drove like this."

I would think that a lawyer could successfully argue that those disclaimers are intended, or at least reasonably interpreted, as a safety measure not as warranty language.

Ultimately I don't believe it matters since the warranty fairly plainly calls out "abuse" and other slightly more-specific examples of things that can void the warranty. But from my perspective the "professional driver, closed course" stuff is more to protect Toyota from any liability if some chucklehead decides to do some high speed drifting through town and slams into cars/pedestrians.


It also doesn't help that car salesmen will straight-up tell you stuff like "oh, as long as you don't modify the short-block we'll honor the warranty" or "I've never seen our service department deny a claim even when the owner bolted on a turbo". Of course those salesman will lie about the weather while they're standing in it, just out of habit.