Potential Cause of rumored GR86’s blown engine? Seal packing(RTV) was peeled off

[22 BRZ]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

OK looking at that one I am going to throw another variable into the mix.
It is possible that the amount of sealant is in spec but the oil pan is torqued down too tight and actually cutting it off. It would only take a couple of pounds over torque to cut into and damage the bead allowing it to break off.

Yup, or loose attached too tight after sealant application (if that's how they do it), final torqued too soon for cure cycle, or any combination of all of these.

Just hammers home how important proper process control is in manufacturing when you have a process controlled outcome (i.e. dimensional inspection or NDT of the end product cannot fully determine if the part is within spec). Manufacturing is hard (but very fun at times)!

That being said, I don't envy the engineers doing the frantic problem solving at the factory right now. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, am still wearing the t-shirt...

[Robertw]

That is way too much RTV on the pan, jesus christ. I'm assuming the fitment is tight, they could probably get away with using half as much RTV.

[RyanGreener]

https://www.thedrive.com/news/toyota...0HGX2GVy61yJtw

Looks like Blake is getting a new engine and possibility of warranty language changing.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by RyanGreener

Looks like Blake is getting a new engine and possibility of warranty language changing.

That's good news.

I'm still not clear though if "Toyota" really changed it's mind or did Blake just finally talk to Toyota Corporate and not the local dealer and the regional franchise reps.

I know when I was at the Long Beach First 86 event, this very question was asked of the Scion corporate honchos including the person responsible for warranty, and the Scion President. They stated with no hesitation that they would not, at the corporate level, deny a warranty service for a vehicle used in these type of events and if the dealer or regional techs tried to do so to escalate it immediately.

Now, I know a lot changes in 10 years, but I would not have expected this to have changed, particularly since they give you membership and encourage you to participate in related events.

[Spektyr]

Originally Posted by 22 BRZ

That being said, I don't envy the engineers doing the frantic problem solving at the factory right now. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, am still wearing the t-shirt...

I have that shirt!

"Don't worry! We'll test it in production!"

[Opie]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

So I was thinking about this, if it only records parameters during a CEL, how do they know there was a heavy use during the break-in? Since the other things you mentioned were ostensibly only recorded after a CEL became present. Or are they saying there were multiple CEL's that cleared themselves and then reset during a restart event?

Didn't the guy share pictures of RTV in the pick up tube or was that someone else?

Great question....contact said data of over revs during break-in....think I need to ask more questions....

This case was someone else, this engine was removed complete and sent to Subaru to inspect.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Spektyr

I have that shirt!

"Don't worry! We'll test it in production!"

I have worn the shirt every single day for the last 30 years.
Although since we make brake rotors "We'll test it in production" is a very, very, bad idea so we ensure they are good before they get made or go out the door!

[OkieSnuffBox]

Also, check the update from GRM on the page on their forum and their Facebook page.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/fo.../197929/page2/

[removedonut]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I'm still not clear though if "Toyota" really changed it's mind or did Blake just finally talk to Toyota Corporate and not the local dealer and the regional franchise reps.

He posted the call log with toyota’s corporate number on page 31 of this thread.

[Spektyr]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I have worn the shirt every single day for the last 30 years.
Although since we make brake rotors "We'll test it in production" is a very, very, bad idea so we ensure they are good before they get made or go out the door!

I got mine while I was in DevOps, so mission-critical IT infrastructure for a company in the healthcare sector.

Actual production testing would be considered Very Bad.

The T-shirt (and I am referring to an actual, literal T-shirt that I wore to work occasionally) was intended to remind people that many times what they were suggesting literally translated to testing new code or hardware in production.

Of course NONE of our business continuity interruptions would have been caused by someone ignoring that idea and knocking out a critical production server, or by blatantly ignoring best practices for them.

[CedN]

This got big, it even showed up on some Swedish car news sites, and we don't even have the gr86 here yet(a handfull might come in later).

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Blighty

I didn't change the argument, whoever started up a discussion about the factory line did.

My point is that Toyota need to fix the issue.

I think I stated the reasons why we might not be seeing it on a lot more engines - because its not checked as part of any standard servicing, and the issue can be something that works its way into something more significant over time, not necessarily every engine blowing immediately.

The very clear reports and imagery comming out from lots of people, and the absolute radio silence about this issue even in teardown reports that had it, makes me feel very uneasy about what is going on.

Everytime your point is countered you come back with a left field "well what about this." "I am not well versed enough on this to form an opinion" is a reasonable response instead of arguing with people about stuff you have no knowledge of.

Let me explain a small part of manufacturing to you. Company A buys whole component from company B. Company B's component fails on end user. Company A still has to take care of their customer. Toyota should take care of the issue, and Toyota IS taking care of the issue. Like most problems of this nature, it is likely not as large as the forum tends to make it, as the forum tends to have a higher concentration of enthusiasts. Whatever resolution comes between Toyota and Subaru, will be between them and we likely will never know the details.

[Espi]

Here is a good look at exactly how much over sealed these are before they start to creep into the motor. This guy pulled his pan and holy crap - 5:12 minute mark+

[Petah78]

Originally Posted by Espi

Here is a good look at exactly how much over sealed these are before they start to creep into the motor. This guy pulled his pan and holy crap - 5:12 minute mark+

I saw this video this morning as well and something came to my mind, what does it look like inside a Gen1 or other makes/models for that matter? I mean excess isn't going to be an issue if it doesn't break off.