Car & Driver: GR86 vs Miata

[foshjowler]

Originally Posted by PBR

Apparently a hybrid. I know. Makes me want to throw up also 👍

The Miata has never had a great engine (except for the original 1.6 obviously lol) so it's not like what it's powered by really matters. As long as it's small, light, and has a similar suspension tuning, it's still a Miata.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by foshjowler

The Miata has never had a great engine (except for the original 1.6 obviously lol) so it's not like what it's powered by really matters. As long as it's small, light, and has a similar suspension tuning, it's still a Miata.

Well, if they go EV with any range, light is relative. Even making it a hybrid is going to up the poundage.

[PBR]

Originally Posted by Decep

It kinda has to, no? Mazda will go out of business if they don't start electrifying their lineup.

Yup but that will add weight that I don't want unless they are serious wizards. Could be a lot of people complaining a whole lot less about the NC...

[Decep]

Yeah, probably people who bought a Miata in 1995 with no plans to buy a new one anyways haha.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by PBR

Apparently a hybrid. I know. Makes me want to throw up also 👍

I’m guessing it will be something like this Carrera. Based on the plans below, I wouldn’t bet on it being like the CRZ or other hybrids, except some performance oriented hybrids like the Toyota Rav4 Hybrid, which is faster than the standard Rav4. It’ll probably be additive as a torque filler with a 1.5L or even with the same 2.0L.

Yes, I’d rather have a simple ICE, but this is the future. Porsche is testing a hybrid 911, as an example.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/44267/...r-the-ne-miata

[Rustyoid]

I think toyota/mazda will build a next gen Miata/MR2(GR2) together with PHEV and EV options. Possibly to debut the lightweight solidstate batteries when they are ready.

(speculation only)

[Deslock]

I drive an ND2 but am a huge fan of the BRZ/GR86 (used to own a 1st gen, and was thrilled when the 2nd gen was announced).

What I posted at miata.net:

Originally Posted by Deslock

That article appears to be written from the perspective of open-top playfulness not being a priority. From its conclusion:

The BRZ/86 has better steering, chassis, and flatter stock suspension, is more powerful (though the ND2 has plenty), and is more practical with its larger trunk and fold-flat rear seats (tiny rear seats > 0 rear seats).

The MX-5 is lighter, has a shorter wheelbase, has a better shifter (though the BRZ/86's is good too), is more compliant on rough roads, gets better fuel economy (BRZ/86 is pretty efficient too), and is a convertible.

The BRZ/86 is incredibly responsive and is more satisfying on the track while the MX-5 is more fun at low-to-moderate speeds with the top down.

Both are awesome. I owned a 1st gen BRZ for over 4 years and it was driving purist bliss. I enjoy the MX-5 more, but if I ever need more than two seats again, I'll get a 2nd gen BRZ/86.

[Spektyr]

Originally Posted by Rustyoid

I think toyota/mazda will build a next gen Miata/MR2(GR2) together with PHEV and EV options. Possibly to debut the lightweight solidstate batteries when they are ready.

(speculation only)

That would either be a Toyota/Subaru/Mazda collaboration, or if it's just Toyota and Mazda then you have two "twins" that Toyota is involved in both of, which means you could get both of them at a Toyota lot.

That also means Toyota would be cannibalizing it's own customers. (The same fear that caused GM to kill the Fiero - the next model was rumored to have a V8 and a mid-engine V8 worried Chevy's Corvette division which is absolutely forbidden to compete with.) That's also the current leading theory behind Toyota under-reporting the power of the 2.4L in the Gen2s (that if they correctly reported the 250+hp they actually make they would lose some Supra buyers to the GR86.)

I'd say that at most what we'd see would be a hybrid drivetrain collaboration between the 3 companies (anything GR86-related is going to include both Toyota and Subaru particularly since Subaru builds both cars.) Essentially chassis-independent development. Mazda could put it in their chassis, Toyobaru could put it in theirs.

Moreover, battery pack size/weight is completely optional. Most likely several other components of the hybrid system could be significantly altered for more performance, lower weight, lower cost, etc. You could put in a longer-range or higher-output battery pack in at the cost of more weight, or simply a short-duration torque boost type system. It'll get you off the line with typical eyeball pushing electric torque 2-3 times, but you'll need to cruise around a while to recharge the tiny pack after that.

Maybe.

Ultimately I don't see an ménage à trois being likely.

[loungin]

I’ll have both. Why choose? Get them all while they last. YOLO - really this is the last hurrah. I have the trims for each in this article coincidentally. Also GR86 loud at 80mph? So far in my commute listening to classical music on the radio it seems fine. 911s and Caymans are loud too. The biggest downside of the gr86 is I can’t hear what rpm I’m at and also throttle pedal is laggy, unpredictable.

[Rustyoid]

Originally Posted by loungin

The biggest downside of the gr86 is I can’t hear what rpm I’m at and also throttle pedal is laggy, unpredictable.

Had these exact problems. Catback exhaust completely fixed it. The throttle isn't as sensitive as a tuned gen 1, but once you can hear it, it is a lot easier to give it the appropriate amount.

[LimitedSlip]

Originally Posted by loungin

. . . listening to classical music on the radio it seems fine.

. . . I can’t hear what rpm I’m at.

Maybe turn down the radio?

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Rustyoid

I think toyota/mazda will build a next gen Miata/MR2(GR2) together with PHEV and EV options. Possibly to debut the lightweight solidstate batteries when they are ready.

(speculation only)

I feel like Mazda and Toyota havent actually done anything together since partnering up several years ago.

Aside from Toyota getting to rebadge the 3rd gen Mazda2 sedan as the Yaris sedan (Canada) and Yaris iA (US) up until 2020 when they also rebadged the hatch (then the whole Yaris line gets discontinued in 2021 lol)

There were those recent rumors of possibly the Lexus IS using the new RWD platform and I6, but that seems to have just ended up being Mazda developing those themselves.
The latest rumor i heard was a sportscar revival collab for the next Mazda RX and Toyota Celica.

[Rustyoid]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

I feel like Mazda and Toyota havent actually done anything together since partnering up several years ago.

Aside from Toyota getting to rebadge the 3rd gen Mazda2 sedan as the Yaris sedan (Canada) and Yaris iA (US) up until 2020 when they also rebadged the hatch (then the whole Yaris line gets discontinued in 2021 lol)

There were those recent rumors of possibly the Lexus IS using the new RWD platform and I6, but that seems to have just ended up being Mazda developing those themselves.
The latest rumor i heard was a sportscar revival collab for the next Mazda RX and Toyota Celica.

The yaris is being sold as a Mazda2 hybrid in europe right now

[PBR]

Originally Posted by foshjowler

The Miata has never had a great engine (except for the original 1.6 obviously lol) so it's not like what it's powered by really matters. As long as it's small, light, and has a similar suspension tuning, it's still a Miata.

Light and hybrid together is what I mean. That problem needs to be solved.