Lugnuts rusting and falling apart?

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Just your standard 1/2 inch breaker bar. I should have avoided the old and possibly Canadian term.

The 4 cross was needed back in the day when wheels were often set several inches back into the fender and the reach was a necessary evil.

Yea, I always figured a breaker bar would put too much side load on the lugs, so avoided it...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by soundman98

Yea, I always figured a breaker bar would put too much side load on the lugs, so avoided it...

You aren’t getting the side load that is being amplified by the extension on the cross. Just stay as short of a socket as you need to keep the bar at a 90 degree angle but still clear the fender.
The cross is also always going to have side load since it is completely impossible to exert the exact same pressure with both hands. One side or the other is always going to be either pushing up and toward you or down and away.
The only plus to the cross is that you can spin the nuts once loose.

[soundman98]

i'll give it a shot next time.

i will say i've never lost a lug spinning them on, it's always taking them off. so the side load from the 4-cross is the only thing that sorta makes sense.

[soundman98]

i'll give it a shot next time.

i will say i've never lost a lug spinning them on, it's always taking them off. so the side load from the 4-cross is the only thing that sorta makes sense.

[e_lunatic]

the wheel studs on the car are fairly temperamental. When my car was still under warranty they would rotate my tires for free and they either cross threaded or over torqued the lugs and i broke 1 stud and when trying to take another lug off it was clear i was going to need to break that one too. I took it back to toyota to complain and the service manager was a **** about it. i had them fix those studs, went to check none of the other lugs/studs were a problem, and then never took my car there again.


It's uncommon for places like America's Tire to hand start the threads and to use the air gun to start the threads and over torque using the same tool.

I have since rotated my tires on my own constantly without ANY issues, the one time 3 weeks ago i took it to Americas Tire to have a small hole patched and they completely destroyed my locking lug even though i told them the key was in the center console area.

its hard to find good help these days. who would have thought lug nut install would be a bridge too far for a tire place and also dealership techs?

[e_lunatic]

Originally Posted by soundman98

do you have a link to something similar?

i've got a big impact i use for work, was just trying to avoid excessive force by using the 4-cross. not opposed to doing things differently though. i hate having to change studs.

it's just weird to me though. this is the only vehicle i've ever broken studs on, used the same technique on my ford, mitsubishi, and chrysler of the past. well, the chrysler had an issue with seized lug nuts, but that was specifically because i was a dummy that changed the stock lugs for fancy colored aluminum anodized versions, and then subjected dissimilar metals to salt...

my process removing lugs: 1/2 drive impact (battery).


My process installing lugs: anti-seize, hand thread until its clear they have been started, 3/8 drive impact (battery) mid speed just until it bottoms and start clicking and then quickly stop, Torque wrench.


This is the process we used for changing tires on the Formula Drift cars I worked on (minus adding anti-seize every time) and never had issues in all those tire changes over the course of 5 years. Thousands of tire changes and no issues so thats what i stayed doing.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by e_lunatic

the wheel studs on the car are fairly temperamental. When my car was still under warranty they would rotate my tires for free and they either cross threaded or over torqued the lugs and i broke 1 stud and when trying to take another lug off it was clear i was going to need to break that one too. I took it back to toyota to complain and the service manager was a **** about it. i had them fix those studs, went to check none of the other lugs/studs were a problem, and then never took my car there again.


It's uncommon for places like America's Tire to hand start the threads and to use the air gun to start the threads and over torque using the same tool.

I have since rotated my tires on my own constantly without ANY issues, the one time 3 weeks ago i took it to Americas Tire to have a small hole patched and they completely destroyed my locking lug even though i told them the key was in the center console area.

its hard to find good help these days. who would have thought lug nut install would be a bridge too far for a tire place and also dealership techs?

The problem with some shops (there are probably more good than bad) is that hand starting all those nuts takes time and time is money. They end up sticking them in an impact gun and however they thread they thread. Then they just hammer them down at max speed and move on.
The tire shop I use specializes in raised trucks and the crew there are all “enthusiasts” so they take the extra few minutes to treat each vehicle like it is their own.

[RZNT4R]

I taught a lesson to the tire guy last week. He was doing the tires on his A5 and he was reaching for the Astro 1894 THOR gun to put them back on (SMA's Big Nasty(TM)).

I went "nah dude, just snug 'em up with my tiny 3/8ths and finish it up with my digital torque wrench"

He found out there and then that yes, you can rocket past 89 lb/ft even with a 3/8ths gun without even being nasty on it, because he was past 89 on every bolt. Moral of the story is, 89 lb/ft is "one handed snug" with a breaker bar, so even if you don't think you're overtorquing them, you probably are. If you do your tires, no sense in buying an expensive digital wrench with a calibration certificate, this is enough

https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-...nch-63882.html

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The problem with some shops (there are probably more good than bad) is that hand starting all those nuts takes time and time is money. They end up sticking them in an impact gun and however they thread they thread. Then they just hammer them down at max speed and move on.
The tire shop I use specializes in raised trucks and the crew there are all “enthusiasts” so they take the extra few minutes to treat each vehicle like it is their own.

I have one tire shop that I trust in my area. Otherwise I just drop off my wheels most of the time for my vehicles. I probably had over 100 tire changes on stock rear studs with no failure. They lasted longer then the hubs did.

[e_lunatic]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The problem with some shops (there are probably more good than bad) is that hand starting all those nuts takes time and time is money. They end up sticking them in an impact gun and however they thread they thread. Then they just hammer them down at max speed and move on.
The tire shop I use specializes in raised trucks and the crew there are all “enthusiasts” so they take the extra few minutes to treat each vehicle like it is their own.

very true. im guessing that the speed either makes up for cost of replacing broken parts or maybe some of these places just haven't done the numbers to figure out what the cost benefit might be to doing things the "right way".
The Discount Tire that ruined my locking lug did say they would replace it but I ended up getting an entirely new set of lugs since i needed closed ended ones anyway and i never went back to have them pay so i guess they skated there. was my fault for trusting them with the car anyway haha

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by e_lunatic

very true. im guessing that the speed either makes up for cost of replacing broken parts or maybe some of these places just haven't done the numbers to figure out what the cost benefit might be to doing things the "right way".
The Discount Tire that ruined my locking lug did say they would replace it but I ended up getting an entirely new set of lugs since i needed closed ended ones anyway and i never went back to have them pay so i guess they skated there. was my fault for trusting them with the car anyway haha

I bet the majority of people they screw up on just accept "Oh it just broke on it's own so that will be an extra $50".
The car guys that know the difference and would actually fight it are such a tiny speck in the overall scheme of things that the time saved will always mean profit for the shady places.

[Decep]

I've never had so many problems with wheel studs and nuts before i got this car. Ended up getting them all changed to ARP and *knock on wood* have not had problems since.

[lynnmichelle]

So I had to replace 3 studs, $400 later

[Decep]

oof. thats about twice what i'd expect it to cost.