GR 86: Orders /Reservation /Waitlist Chat

[Robertw]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Do you work for free? If your boss said "I will give you a $1,000 bonus if you have this done by this date" and then comes back and says "I know you did it on time but Fred finished it yesterday so no bonus for you" would you be good with that?
Dealerships are a business and want to ensure they stay that way not spend time working on deals that are not going to happen. If people order a product they should be prepared to follow through.

Given how Toyota allocates cars to dealerships, the dealership does no extra work to get you your car or a car, period. They get an email when allocations are coming up (twice a month) showing them what they’re getting. They’re not working for free, they’re literally carrying on business as usual.

My dealership called me 2 weeks ago, told me they have a white base MT coming, I ordered a red premium MT. That’s the extent of the work they did, they called the next person in line to tell them they have a white base Mt coming in, that person wants a white premium MT…

What deal making are you referencing?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by BioRebel

1. It is a toyota thing, they don't take factory orders which throws fuel onto the fire you're describing. If they just took factory orders like Subaru then maybe people wouldn't be placing orders at every dealer hoping the gachapon distribution system gives them the one they want (or one at all)

2. If I give a dealer money up front for a car to be sold to me @ MSRP then we've entered a deal and they should honor that deal. And if they jack up the price when the car comes in then I should be able to get my full deposit back. PERIOD.

Agree! A signed and sealed deal is a deal. I was speaking more to the people that agree to pay the markup.

In the current condition of the industry even those places taking direct orders can not guarantee you will get the car.

[andys_garage]

Originally Posted by Robertw

Given how Toyota allocates cars to dealerships, the dealership does no extra work to get you your car or a car, period. They get an email when allocations are coming up (twice a month) showing them what they’re getting. They’re not working for free, they’re literally carrying on business as usual.

They do sometimes put effort into getting a car sooner from another dealership if they can. In my case they tried that and failed, but were able to request the car in their next allocation.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by Robertw

They’re not working for free, they’re literally carrying on business as usual.

You can't be this naive can you? How old are you? What do you do for a living? You do realize that "business as usual" is far from free, right?

[Robertw]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

You can't be this naive can you? How old are you? What do you do for a living? You do realize that "business as usual" is far from free, right?

So the deposit is the finders fee? Can’t find the car, return the deposit.

I think you’re confusing my position. If the dealership finds you the car you ordered, and you back out, and there was a non refundable deposit agreed upon. At that point I agree, you lose your deposit. They delivered on their end of the bargain. But if I put a deposit with 2 dealerships, one gets me a car, the other can’t, the dealership that can’t shouldn’t be keeping the deposit. But we all know the car that was ordered and someone backed out on will sell immediately. Let’s not ignore that when discussing dealer hardships.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Robertw

So the deposit is the finders fee? Can’t find the car, return the deposit.

I think you’re confusing my position. If the dealership finds you the car you ordered, and you back out, and there was a non refundable deposit agreed upon. At that point I agree, you lose your deposit. They delivered on their end of the bargain. But if I put a deposit with 2 dealerships, one gets me a car, the other can’t, the dealership that can’t shouldn’t be keeping the deposit. But we all know the car that was ordered and someone backed out on will sell immediately. Let’s not ignore that when discussing dealer hardships.

That is where you simply make sure you have a documented agreement that gives you a time period or other escape clause. If any dealer won't do that then I wouldn't want to be buying from them anyway.

This is LITERALLY what I have been saying all along!

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by Robertw

So the deposit is the finders fee? Can’t find the car, return the deposit.

I think you’re confusing my position. If the dealership finds you the car you ordered, and you back out, and there was a non refundable deposit agreed upon. At that point I agree, you lose your deposit. They delivered on their end of the bargain. But if I put a deposit with 2 dealerships, one gets me a car, the other can’t, the dealership that can’t shouldn’t be keeping the deposit. But we all know the car that was ordered and someone backed out on will sell immediately. Let’s not ignore that when discussing dealer hardships.

First, let's take this back to what started this conversation - Doc_Bch_Stkrs nonrefundable deposit. In this case, over the phone (with no fine print) the dealer called it non-refundable. Doc Bch Stkrs gave them 6-8 months to deliver or make it refundable and the dealer said we will do it in 4-6. So it sounds like we all agree this is completely and totally fine.

As for any other hypothetical "non-refundable" deposit, all that needs to be said is that I have no problem with any agreement the parties make as long as the parties discuss, understand and agree on the terms before signing. If you sign an agreement for a non-refundable deposit with an open-ended delivery date and no possibility of getting it back ever (which, btw nobody on here has claimed they have signed) - well, that would be kind of stupid - but that's on you now, isn't it?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

First, let's take this back to what started this conversation - Doc_Bch_Stkrs nonrefundable deposit. In this case, over the phone (with no fine print) the dealer called it non-refundable. Doc Bch Stkrs gave them 6-8 months to deliver or make it refundable and the dealer said we will do it in 4-6. So it sounds like we all agree this is completely and totally fine.

As for any other hypothetical "non-refundable" deposit, all that needs to be said is that I have no problem with any agreement the parties make as long as the parties discuss, understand and agree on the terms before signing. If you sign an agreement for a non-refundable deposit with an open-ended delivery date and no possibility of getting it back ever (which, btw nobody on here has claimed they have signed) - well, that would be kind of stupid - but that's on you now, isn't it?

Can't wait to see the torches and pitchfork's come out the first time that somebody that made multiple deposits has two or more cars show up at different dealers at the same time and they hold them to the non refundable if delivered clause. Being in writing won't help then. The buyer is going to have to pick one and eat the others and they wouldn't have a legal leg to stand on even if the car just goes to the next in line.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Robertw

So the deposit is the finders fee? Can’t find the car, return the deposit.

I think you’re confusing my position. If the dealership finds you the car you ordered, and you back out, and there was a non refundable deposit agreed upon. At that point I agree, you lose your deposit. They delivered on their end of the bargain. But if I put a deposit with 2 dealerships, one gets me a car, the other can’t, the dealership that can’t shouldn’t be keeping the deposit. But we all know the car that was ordered and someone backed out on will sell immediately. Let’s not ignore that when discussing dealer hardships.

Well, not if what you signed is an open-ended agreement with no stipulations for this scenario.

The agreement needed to have a clause saying of you found the exact car at another dealership before it could be delivered by this dealership then you get your "nonrefundable" deposit back.

But, if you signed a true non-refundable agreement with both dealers than you are basically signing away one of the two deposits as a conciliation prize to the dealer that couldn't (or didn't/wouldn't) find the car in the quickest time.

There's nothing refundable about a nonrefundable deposit. Either there are stipulations as when it is refundable, or you ain't getting your money back.

[Robertw]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

First, let's take this back to what started this conversation - Doc_Bch_Stkrs nonrefundable deposit. In this case, over the phone (with no fine print) the dealer called it non-refundable. Doc Bch Stkrs gave them 6-8 months to deliver or make it refundable and the dealer said we will do it in 4-6. So it sounds like we all agree this is completely and totally fine.

As for any other hypothetical "non-refundable" deposit, all that needs to be said is that I have no problem with any agreement the parties make as long as the parties discuss, understand and agree on the terms before signing. If you sign an agreement for a non-refundable deposit with an open-ended delivery date and no possibility of getting it back ever (which, btw nobody on here has claimed they have signed) - well, that would be kind of stupid - but that's on you now, isn't it?

All well and good. But there are folks making the case that dealerships are losing money, or working hard for these non refundable deposits, that's a joke.

Has no one here haggled with multiple dealerships, possibly hours or for a few days and walked? Should I be compensating them for their time? That’s what I meant by “business as usual” when saying I don’t agree with non refundable deposits, while others are justify their worth because the dealership worked for it. I’ve said they are a scam and I don’t agree with them. I put my money where my mouth is, and have a deposit down with a dealership agreeing it’s fully refundable since Nov 2021.

I think we all mostly agree, other than the principal of it all.

[fredzy]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Can't wait to see the torches and pitchfork's come out the first time that somebody that made multiple deposits has two or more cars show up at different dealers at the same time and they hold them to the non refundable if delivered clause. Being in writing won't help then. The buyer is going to have to pick one and eat the others and they wouldn't have a legal leg to stand on even if the car just goes to the next in line.

I plan to hand off any extra allocations I end up with to somebody on here. Hard to think of a situation where I'd get stuck - if both had a similar ETA I'd hand it off well in advance.

..but would getting stuck with an extra GR86 PMT in todays' market be a bad thing?

Honestly I'm hoping the market cools down so I'm not tempted to buy the extra and flip it, basically becoming a Sith for a couple grand in profit.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Either there are stipulations as when it is refundable, or you ain't getting your money back.

Yeah. My dealer told me, my "non-refundable" deposit is refundable under two conditions.

1. The car is delivered with some type of damage incurred during shipping (but in reality this is highly unlikely).
2. They can't get me financed. With my credit score and income, I'm not worried about that.

If I just decide, "Nah, I've decided I don't want the car." They get to keep my $1k, which I don't really like, but I can understand it.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by fredzy

I plan to hand off any extra allocations I end up with to somebody on here. Hard to think of a situation where I'd get stuck - if both had a similar ETA I'd hand it off well in advance.

..but would getting stuck with an extra GR86 PMT in todays' market be a bad thing?

Honestly I'm hoping the market cools down so I'm not tempted to buy the extra and flip it, basically becoming a Sith for a couple grand in profit.

Probably be easy to do!

[WRBRZk]

I'm really glad this conversation is being had right now. I'm one of those people with multiple deposits down waiting for a brz. I originally placed my first deposit in November for a 2022. Long story short, the dealership screwed me over and now I am still waiting for what will be a 2023. With the little trust I have left, I've decided to leave my deposit there to avoid losing my spot in 'line', however I decided to order my 2023 from somewhere else as well since I don't trust the original dealership. What are the chances I'm still entitled to the refund of my $1000 deposit from Novemeber? All I filled out was a purchase order agreement, but this was 5.5 months ago. Not to mention that sheet is filled out for a 2022, but this has since been changed a 2023 and I have not signed any new contract/forms.