GR 86: Orders /Reservation /Waitlist Chat

[Doc_Bch_Stkrs]

Originally Posted by Robertw

...The solution is to simply put deposits down with dealerships that offer refunds.

I will say this much; the fact that this dealer required a non-refundable $1,000 deposit is also probably why I'm the first on the list. If it was no risk, there could be 20 people in line--but this way at least they know I'm serious. I could not get a better price on the car in this market otherwise, also.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Robertw

How is that playing the system? lol If someone really wants the car, their best bet is to put deposits down with multiple dealerships. Most dealerships have a line of people waiting for the car, if someone backs out, it's of no loss to them anyways. Non refundable deposits are a dealership scam imho, especially in this current market.

The solution is to simply put deposits down with dealerships that offer refunds. I have a deposit with a dealership that hasn't even charged my card yet. I filled out a form that gives them permission to charge my card when they get an allocation for the car I submitted a "build" sheet for, or I agree to accepting a car that's not spec'd to my liking, ie color.

You can spare me the dealership apologist argument post I know you're brewing up after reading this reply.

The very fact that people put deposits down at several dealerships is exactly why they want non refundable ones.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by Robertw

Non refundable deposits are a dealership scam imho, especially in this current market.

Scam?? WTF. I mean, I guess if you are too stupid to understand what you sign up for, you are subject to getting "scammed" by a dealer (and everyone else on the planet).

BTW, you do realize that there is value to the time and energy people at a dealership spend. You aren't the only person on the planet whose time/energy has value.

This particular dealership has decided their people's time/energy is better spent on buyers that actually have some real skin in the game.

However, I can see a dealership saying they would rather go the refundable deposit route, get a ton of people on the wait list, get as many allocations as they can, and then charge the guys on the wait list as much as they can with extra dealer crap knowing that if the first guy on the list won't take it, the second, third, fourth or fifth probably will. Heck - we've seen this exact scenario play out on here many times already. Frankly, if I were a dealer, that is probably the way I would go as it seems like the more profitable route. But it seems like more of scam than what the "nonrefundable" dealer above is offering.

[fredzy]

I have multiple deposits. I was reluctant to do this as there is always risk, regardless of what the sales guy says.

When reaching out to dealers about putting a deposit down I was totally transparent about what I was doing and why. I only encountered a few that took issue. One dealer said "sorry, non-refundable." The other said "refundable if we can't get you an allocation in 6 months." They were also markup dealers so were ruled out anyhow.

Before doing additional deposits, I had to circle back to my original dealer. I had no intention to do this kind of thing when I first started so refundability was only discussed in passing back in December. They said the deposit might be non-refundable if I want to back out after they get me an allocation, but later said it won't be a problem as they admitted they will mark the car up if I back out

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by fredzy

They said the deposit might be non-refundable if I want to back out after they get me an allocation, but later said it won't be a problem as they admitted they will mark the car up if I back out

As I said, no issues with what you are doing. And as you noted to them and they admitted, there is almost zero chance given the current climate that they couldn't sell it to someone else at least at what they are offering you.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by fredzy

I have multiple deposits. I was reluctant to do this as there is always risk, regardless of what the sales guy says.

When reaching out to dealers about putting a deposit down I was totally transparent about what I was doing and why. I only encountered a few that took issue. One dealer said "sorry, non-refundable." The other said "refundable if we can't get you an allocation in 6 months." They were also markup dealers so were ruled out anyhow.

Before doing additional deposits, I had to circle back to my original dealer. I had no intention to do this kind of thing when I first started so refundability was only discussed in passing back in December. They said the deposit might be non-refundable if I want to back out after they get me an allocation, but later said it won't be a problem as they admitted they will mark the car up if I back out

Contrary to how Mr W seems to have taken my earlier statement there is nothing wrong with people making multiple deposits as long as they realize that they could end up losing a non refundable deposit if things work out just wrong. If you have several deposits out there and two cars come in at the same time (totally feasible) you are only going to buy one. If the other dealer says "well you had a deposit and now you say you don't want the car after it has arrived" then that is on the buyer not the dealer.

[Robertw]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

Scam?? WTF. I mean, I guess if you are too stupid to understand what you sign up for, you are subject to getting "scammed" by a dealer (and everyone else on the planet).

BTW, you do realize that there is value to the time and energy people at a dealership spend. You aren't the only person on the planet whose time/energy has value.

This particular dealership has decided their people's time/energy is better spent on buyers that actually have some real skin in the game.

However, I can see a dealership saying they would rather go the refundable deposit route, get a ton of people on the wait list, get as many allocations as they can, and then charge the guys on the wait list as much as they can with extra dealer crap knowing that if the first guy on the list won't take it, the second, third, fourth or fifth probably will. Heck - we've seen this exact scenario play out on here many times already. Frankly, if I were a dealer, that is probably the way I would go as it seems like the more profitable route. But it seems like more of scam than what the "nonrefundable" dealer above is offering.

Atm the non-refundable deposits are a scam, there is no guarantee you will get the car, there are no eta's for "orders", but the only guarantee is the dealership gets to keep your money. I'm not blaming the dealerships for the supply issues, but at the same time there should be some flexibility on the dealers side with the option for a deposit to be refunded, some dealerships offer that flexibility. My est to get my car was 4-6 months, we're past that, it should be completely reasonable for the dealership to refund my deposit if I so choose. Is it fair for the dealership to hold my money for 8 months, 12 months, 14 months, 16 months without getting me a car? Like I said before, it's not like the dealership took a custom order for your unique car, then spent weeks tracking your order etc, they're receiving an allocation and get what they get which they would receive regardless of your "build" deposit. It's not a huge loss if you pull your deposit as the car will simply be offered to the next person in line. People are willing to fly out to buy one of these cars, there is no struggle finding buyers, the dealership has lost nothing by you backing out. There is no hardship on the dealership as a result of you walking away.

But like others have said, folks that put a deposit down with a dealership with a non refundable deposit policy, that's on them, and that's what they signed up for. I'm simply saying it's a total scam on the dealers side. That's why I put a deposit down with a dealership with a refundable deposit policy.

[Robertw]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Contrary to how Mr W seems to have taken my earlier statement there is nothing wrong with people making multiple deposits as long as they realize that they could end up losing a non refundable deposit if things work out just wrong. If you have several deposits out there and two cars come in at the same time (totally feasible) you are only going to buy one. If the other dealer says "well you had a deposit and now you say you don't want the car after it has arrived" then that is on the buyer not the dealer.

If Toyota handled “orders” how Subaru does, I would agree with you that non refundable deposits make sense. At least with Subaru you will get the car you ordered, in the spec you ordered, it may just take a while. Totally fair.

Toyotas lottery order system plus non refundable deposits, gtfo.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Robertw

If Toyota handled “orders” how Subaru does, I would agree with you that non refundable deposits make sense. At least with Subaru you will get the car you ordered, in the spec you ordered, it may just take a while. Totally fair.

Toyotas lottery order system plus non refundable deposits, gtfo.

Wait Toyota’s deposits are non-refundable? That can’t be real.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Wait Toyota’s deposits are non-refundable? That can’t be real.

They aren't "Toyota deposits". They are "Toyota of South Ripoff Land" deposits determined by a local dealership.

[Doc_Bch_Stkrs]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

They aren't "Toyota deposits". They are "Toyota of South Ripoff Land" deposits determined by a local dealership.

AKA, Toyota of we don't want to do work a hundred times for 99 of those people to have bought the car elsewhere.

[Yoshoobaroo]

I don’t care if they’re not Toyota deposits, they are incentivizing the scrap with their stupid allocation model.

I don’t see myself ever buying a Toyota under these conditions. It’s about as anti consumer as you can get

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Wait Toyota’s deposits are non-refundable? That can’t be real.

The reasonable dealers "non refundable" deposits only apply if the car arrives and then you don't take it. They are fully refundable if you set a time limit and no car shows up in that period.
The whole idea is to try to get cars to people that are serious about buying one THERE not running around wasting dealers time trying to order cars from everybody hoping to get one faster.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

I don’t care if they’re not Toyota deposits, they are incentivizing the scrap with their stupid allocation model.

I don’t see myself ever buying a Toyota under these conditions. It’s about as anti consumer as you can get

It is the consumer that is creating the situation not the other way around.
Everybody wants to be first and screw all the others guys trying to order.