Would the 1st gen steering rack fit 2nd Gen

[dragoontwo]

I wonder if changing the damper in the steering wheel to the older style would do anything(if it fits).

[drift86]

Originally Posted by PBR

I've owned both. I find the new steering to be lighter but not lacking in "feel." It doesn't have the off center dead spot like my '13 but also doesn't have that nice extra bit of weight to it. Weight and feel are not the same thing. Anyways, find the newer steering more direct, precise with no "feel" dampened out. Just lighter and feels great in spirited driving and opposite lock. After Bilstein B8s/Swift Spec R/Rear LCA/ - 1 camber all around with a bit of rear toe out, it hasn't felt any heavier. I do miss that extra bit of weight but appreciate that i find it more direct and precise.

Great summary. This is what I found as well.

I've owned both together for a couple of months and drove them back to back many times.

Initially, I was quite disappointed by the lack of weight on the new steering rack. But after taking the new car to a wet skidpad for some drifting recently, I found it to provide just as much 'feel' as the old one. I didn't find anything lacking when driving on the limits and was able to tell the limit of grip and counter steering felt very natural.

I didn't really notice any difference in the steering ratio between the two and don't mind the new steering at all now.

The throttle response on the other hand, feels much better on the old car. The new car feels like it has a heavier flywheel and is slower to rev up and has more rev hang. I wonder if it is just software or if the flywheel is physically heavier.

[Powersfrs]

Originally Posted by drift86

Great summary. This is what I found as well.

I've owned both together for a couple of months and drove them back to back many times.

Initially, I was quite disappointed by the lack of weight on the new steering rack. But after taking the new car to a wet skidpad for some drifting recently, I found it to provide just as much 'feel' as the old one. I didn't find anything lacking when driving on the limits and was able to tell the limit of grip and counter steering felt very natural.

I didn't really notice any difference in the steering ratio between the two and don't mind the new steering at all now.

The throttle response on the other hand, feels much better on the old car. The new car feels like it has a heavier flywheel and is slower to rev up and has more rev hang. I wonder if it is just software or if the flywheel is physically heavier.

Crazy how we all can interpret things so different.
Thanks for all the inputs!

[Midnightsky]

Originally Posted by Powersfrs

Have you driven the previous gen?

Unfortunately not.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

I wonder if perhaps some of the conflicting reports are due to the tires? Most Twins got Primacies in the first gen while the second gen is probably split about half and half between the Primacies and the Pilot Sport 4. If the PS4 doesn't feel as sporty as the Primacies (with the PS4 and PS4S don't feel too sporty, according to some reviewers, particularly Tyre Reviews) it might explain the difference in reported steering feel?

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by PBR

I've owned both. I find the new steering to be lighter but not lacking in "feel." It doesn't have the off center dead spot like my '13 but also doesn't have that nice extra bit of weight to it. Weight and feel are not the same thing. Anyways, find the newer steering more direct, precise with no "feel" dampened out. Just lighter and feels great in spirited driving and opposite lock. After Bilstein B8s/Swift Spec R/Rear LCA/ - 1 camber all around with a bit of rear toe out, it hasn't felt any heavier. I do miss that extra bit of weight but appreciate that i find it more direct and precise.

I should have said I do notice that it is just a touch lighter. And agree with your comments about weight vs. preciseness. I had an Audi A6 2.7t way back when and most everybody agreed that the steering assist was way over-boosted. You could remove a relay easily that significantly reduced the boost and made the steering much heavier (but no more precise). I did this and left it off because I preferred somewhat heavy over super light.

It's funny, because it reminds me a little of the active sound in the 2022's. I might actually like and use it if it wasn't just way too much.

BTW - the Audi 2.7t was a 2000 that I bought in 2003 with like 40K miles and sold in 2011 with something like 220k miles. I sold it for like $2,000 to a guy who was shipping it to Seattle to use the manual transmission as a donor to his S6 Avant (wagon) which was never available in the states as a manual. As sad as I was that the car itself was being euthanized (it was in great shape, particularly the interior), I was happy that the transmission would be living on in a really cool and unique car. Wonder whatever happened with both my car and the S6?

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

I wonder if perhaps some of the conflicting reports are due to the tires? Most Twins got Primacies in the first gen while the second gen is probably split about half and half between the Primacies and the Pilot Sport 4. If the PS4 doesn't feel as sporty as the Primacies (with the PS4 and PS4S don't feel too sporty, according to some reviewers, particularly Tyre Reviews) it might explain the difference in reported steering feel?

Not sure if that is the cause for steering feel discrepancies. But I already know that I think the PS4's are too sticky for what I want to do. I can't kick it out as easily as I could with the Gen1 on the Primacies. And when it does break loose, it is not quite as predictable as it was in the Gen1 on the Primacies. I will just live with it for the life of the PS4's (which I presume will get less sticky over time), but will go to something closer to the Primacies when the time comes. What I would like to find is some really good all-seasons that behave like the Primacies did in the summer time/dry pavement.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

Not sure if that is the cause for steering feel discrepancies. But I already know that I think the PS4's are too sticky for what I want to do. I can't kick it out as easily as I could with the Gen1 on the Primacies. And when it does break loose, it is not quite as predictable as it was in the Gen1 on the Primacies. I will just live with it for the life of the PS4's (which I presume will get less sticky over time), but will go to something closer to the Primacies when the time comes. What I would like to find is some really good all-seasons that behave like the Primacies did in the summer time/dry pavement.

Then you aren't cornering very hard. I had no problem getting the rear around with 255/35 Star Specs.

Side note, if you liked the Primacies so much, why not just another a set when the time comes?

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Side note, if you liked the Primacies so much, why not just another a set when the time comes?

Not saying I can't get the 2022 on 18 PS4's loose, just that it happens later and not quite as predictably as it did for the 2020 on 17" Primacies. Obviously, lots of things different on the 2022 vs 2020 than just the tires that are involved in that, but I am guessing that the tires are the primary cause.

As for your second question, certainly won't rule out Primacies when the time comes, just don't know if I can get the same type of dry/summer performance while picking up some better all-season/winter performance.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

Not saying I can't get the 2022 on 18 PS4's loose, just that it happens later and not quite as predictably as it did for the 2020 on 17" Primacies. Obviously, lots of things different on the 2022 vs 2020 than just the tires that are involved in that, but I am guessing that the tires are the primary cause.

As for your second question, certainly won't rule out Primacies when the time comes, just don't know if I can get the same type of dry/summer performance while picking up some better all-season/winter performance.

I'm guessing as far north as you are, you run winter tires?

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

I'm guessing as far north as you are, you run winter tires?

I went two winters with the Gen1 and the Primacies. The first was fine as we got very little snow. This year was bad, and in fact I did a 360 on a highway once and got stuck trying to go up my driveway twice. I am lucky the highway was mostly empty and I was going slow when I did the 360 - but I was white-knuckling it all the way home.

I already know that the PS4s will be worse and non-drivable in the snow this winter. My daughter's 2010 beetle (she's at college) is always an option on bad days and I actually have a set of fairly well worn 16" Blizzaks/wheels that I used on my 2007 335i that I could use - haven't decided what I will do this winter yet.

[Powersfrs]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

I wonder if perhaps some of the conflicting reports are due to the tires? Most Twins got Primacies in the first gen while the second gen is probably split about half and half between the Primacies and the Pilot Sport 4. If the PS4 doesn't feel as sporty as the Primacies (with the PS4 and PS4S don't feel too sporty, according to some reviewers, particularly Tyre Reviews) it might explain the difference in reported steering feel?

I drove a stock 2017 BRZ on stock primacy tires vs my 2022 BRZ with 255 ps4s yet the 2017 BRZ had superior steering feel/accuracy. Tires, after market top hats and suspension have a huge impact on steering feel yet the stock 2017 BRZ felt superior than my modified 2022 BRZ

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Powersfrs

I drove a stock 2017 BRZ on stock primacy tires vs my 2022 BRZ with 255 ps4s yet the 2017 BRZ had superior steering feel/accuracy. Tires, after market top hats and suspension have a huge impact on steering feel yet the stock 2017 BRZ felt superior than my modified 2022 BRZ

Well, consensus on this forum is that wider tires detract from steering feel, and Tyre Reviews often complains about the steering feel of the PS4S being lacking. Perhaps your gen 2 would feel better on 215 wide Primacies (or other sporty feeling tire)?

[Powersfrs]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

Well, consensus on this forum is that wider tires detract from steering feel, and Tyre Reviews often complains about the steering feel of the PS4S being lacking. Perhaps your gen 2 would feel better on 215 wide Primacies (or other sporty feeling tire)?

My 2022 BRZ felt worst stock!
My buddy has a stock 2022 gr86 and we’ve drove my modified 2022 BRZ and his 2022 gr86 back to back and my set up improved steering significantly but not as good as the 2017 BRZ. Ive done all the experiments possible to rule out tires suspension but at the end Toyota really did change the steering feel.