2023 GR86 10th Aniv, GR Supra 6MT, GR Corolla MASTER THREAD

[LRNAD90]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Fewer and fewer are made because fewer and fewer people buy them.
It isn't a case of what is "better" or "more fun" but simple majority rules economics.

When you are talking everyday driver sedans, etc, sure. But Porsche found out when they stopped making manual gearboxes (because the Tiptronics were faster), that there was a significant number of consumers in the sports car marketspace that still wanted the manual gearbox. Significant enough that they spent the money to brought them back..

Originally Posted by Rus

Ah. LOL! So we are agreeing that the auto deserves to exist? That's all I was getting at

Deserves to exist? Sure, my argument is that Manual Transmissions don't deserve to be lost because modern autos can often produce better lap times..

Just realizing that this thread has gone way off topic, my apologies to the original poster for the part I have played it in, I will shut up now..

[Westen86]

I think it has to do with how good an automatic is. Does anybody complain about the 1-speed transmission in the Koeniggsegg Regera? No. I think if we were dealing with an unresponsive slushbox auto Supra, there would be valid complaints. But as a lot of people are tracking the Supra (with over 500hp reliably) with huge success, its a good box. Ive driven an auto FRS, and I did not hate it. It was responsive and engaging. It was mildly irritating how many FRS's I looked at that were auto when I was looking to buy one. Especially the 10 Series. "Ooo, thats a good price!" ...auto. Keep looking.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by LRNAD90

When you are talking everyday driver sedans, etc, sure. But Porsche found out when they stopped making manual gearboxes (because the Tiptronics were faster), that there was a significant number of consumers in the sports car marketspace that still wanted the manual gearbox. Significant enough that they spent the money to brought them back..



Deserves to exist? Sure, my argument is that Manual Transmissions don't deserve to be lost because modern autos can often produce better lap times..

Just realizing that this thread has gone way off topic, my apologies to the original poster for the part I have played it in, I will shut up now..

Different market and demographic with no cares of pleasing as wide a groups as possible.
At least most of the guys here that show concern about the dyeing MT buy new cars with MT. There is nothing more ironic then the crown that moans and crys about MT disappearing in one sentence and then adamantly swear that anybody that buys a new car is a moron. They have no say in the matter!

The thread will return to it's originally scheduled broadcast on it's own. Or it won't. It's multitopic format is a little to broad to keep up anyway.
EDIT: Oh and we have a complete sub forum for other model cars anyway.
Although Rust is doing a great job of giving info as it comes out!!!!!

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by Westen86

I think it has to do with how good an automatic is. Does anybody complain about the 1-speed transmission in the Koeniggsegg Regera? No.

I think what it has to do with depends entirely on the person you are talking to. For me (and a few others, including LRNAD90 I would guess), manual vs. AT isn't a choice no matter how good the AT. If it's not a manual, it's not for me. Everyone has different degrees of preferences on the spectrum between only AT and only manual, but there is definitely a group of manual enthusiasts that are manual or nothing.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

I think what it has to do with depends entirely on the person you are talking to. For me (and a few others, including LRNAD90 I would guess), manual vs. AT isn't a choice no matter how good the AT. If it's not a manual, it's not for me. Everyone has different degrees of preferences on the spectrum between only AT and only manual, but there is definitely a group of manual enthusiasts that are manual or nothing.

I am a MT guy. My objection is to the many many MANY that seem to think that everybody should be a MT guy no matter how they use the car! The statement was even made here that there should not be any AT Supras. That is just wrong.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I am a MT guy. My objection is to the many many MANY that seem to think that everybody should be a MT guy no matter how they use the car! The statement was even made here that there should not be any AT Supras. That is just wrong.

We agree on this. I've got zero problems with someone choosing or preferring AT. The only people I like to needle are the guys who claim they are manual over everything else but didn't actually buy a manual because of some lame excuse like "I drive in traffic." You can totally be that guy and be an enthusiast and even enjoy driving manuals - but you are not a "manual guy."

And those of us that are manual guys act the way we do is because we are very, very worried this may be our last new manual car. That is why we complain that Toyota spit the bit if the rumors of an 80/20 GR86 AT/MT split are true. Yes, they may be selling all of those AT's - but if the split had been 50/50 or 60/40 MT v AT, they would have sold those as well (at least during this initial run). It's a vicious cycle - less MT's mean less manual guys means even less MT's and even less manual guys.

I realize given that the end of ICE being not too far behind the inevitable death of MT's makes my actions akin to pissing in the wind - but so be it.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

We agree on this. I've got zero problems with someone choosing or preferring AT. The only people I like to needle are the guys who claim they are manual over everything else but didn't actually buy a manual because of some lame excuse like "I drive in traffic." You can totally be that guy and be an enthusiast and even enjoy driving manuals - but you are not a "manual guy."

And those of us that are manual guys act the way we do is because we are very, very worried this may be our last new manual car. That is why we complain that Toyota spit the bit if the rumors of an 80/20 GR86 AT/MT split are true. Yes, they may be selling all of those AT's - but if the split had been 50/50 or 60/40 MT v AT, they would have sold those as well (at least during this initial run). It's a vicious cycle - less MT's mean less manual guys means even less MT's and even less manual guys.

I realize given that the end of ICE being not too far behind the inevitable death of MT's makes my actions akin to pissing in the wind - but so be it.

The younger crowd here could very well live to see the day where you do not drive the vehicle at all so even an old Slip and Slide Powerglide AT would all of a sudden be desirable!

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The younger crowd here could very well live to see the day where you do not drive the vehicle at all so even an old Slip and Slide Powerglide AT would all of a sudden be desirable!

Well, I know one thing for sure. My 13 year old son will at least know how to drive a manual.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

Well, I know one thing for sure. My 13 year old son will at least know how to drive a manual.

Both my millennial kids (41 and 39) do not now, nor have ever, driven a car of any type transmission!



I did however teach the 13 year old grandson MT and that is what he has driven exclusively for 6 years since. He is currently waiting on an order for one of the handful of MT base models Corollas being made.

[Rustyoid]

Originally Posted by LRNAD90

Just realizing that this thread has gone way off topic, my apologies to the original poster for the part I have played it in, I will shut up now..

No sweat, I don't think it was off topic! A good discussion, I think some of the context was lost through the internet and we all thought we were debating but were just stating our opinions! Cheers!

[Dake]

Originally Posted by LRNAD90

Supra was built as a Race Car? I dunno that I buy that. They should have cut a lot of the luxuries out, and made it lighter much lighter then. Seems much more a GT car to me. And maybe as a GT car an auto makes sense, but the Race Car argument doesn't to me..

I've always said this. If you really want to get into it, the Supra began as a trim model of the Celica which was a pocket-pony-car. It followed the recipe of stuffing a bigger motor into a smaller frame and fun ensued. But it quickly morphed to a GT car with the 3rd gen and the 4th gen continued that.

While times change and yadda yadda yadda, making it a pure two seater with armored-car visibility was a step backwards for me. It is what it is, and there's no real going back on it. But the whole marketing thing from Toyota now about it being a "pure sports car because heritage" is just that... marketing.

All of which circles back around to - I'm excited to have the choice between the GR86 and GR Corolla. The Supra is a non-starter for multiple reasons, none of which have anything to do with pricing or stick v manual.

[Robertw]

GR Corolla announcement almost had we cancel my GR86 order, a proper hot hatch is very tempting, but being my second car (toy car) I decided it's better to keep the 86 order. My wallet will be happier as well lol.

[Robotaz]

Can a mod redirect the conversation to the thread topic instead of the ridiculous automatic vs manual transmission topic hijack people seem to want to inflict on us?

[Rustyoid]

Originally Posted by Robotaz

Can a mod redirect the conversation to the thread topic instead of the ridiculous automatic vs manual transmission topic hijack people seem to want to inflict on us?

What are you talking about lol, everyone is just having a nice discussion?

I updated the main post with a few little things today theres not much else to discuss besides the Supra transmission as we don't have any other GR news, yet