Vivid Racing - Agency Power Dyno Runs Part III

[EZWood]

Originally Posted by sportsguy83

I guess you did not read my post before replying.. First Sentence: "EZWood does not have any other performance measuring tools at hand right now"... so whatever else he answered would not have met your expectations, so why not wait for tested results to come up? You are starting to sound like Angry Smurf

I read it, I guess I'm just trying to shove logic down these guys throats. Who needs logic when you have unicorn powered wankel motors? I should just wait till I have time slips and not let these guys get to me so much.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by EZWood

I read it, I guess I'm just trying to shove logic down these guys throats. Who needs logic when you have unicorn powered wankel motors? I should just wait till I have time slips and not let these guys get to me so much.

Oily and thick skin my friend. Thanks for everything you have done and don't let anyone discourage you! Me and a lot of other posters here "get it"

[E92M3Guy]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

That is all well and good however.

1.) the mods will delete if they see a problem (and there is no problem with what/how I posted)

2.) it is relevant here. (unlike your comment) last thing we need is for people to start bench racing their dyno operators...ala....my dyno operator makes smoother plots than your dyno operator, or XXXsmitty at XYZ dyno sucks he never gets the same HP as Johnny57...we have alot of noobs here, I'd prefer if they had the ability to sort the flyshit from the pepper and didn't get led astray.

You make some great points and I'm sure you have good intentions. Unless my comments were misconstrued or taken out of context, I think it would be very difficult to have the adverse effects described above.

Since we don't know each other, it's impossible to know each other's credentials. I'm sure we both speak from ample experience. I'm very well versed in engine, inertial, and hub-attached dyno's. I've used all of them, and some more than others. I'm pretty knowledgeable how each one works, the pro's, con's, the physics, and some of the formula's. I'm very familair with dyno correction factors and have written the software to do it. When I stated that inertial dyno's basically guess hp, I wasn't speaking this out of thin air. The fact is, I don't know of any inertial dyno's that simply rely on mass*acceration to obtain a results. I'm aware of at least three of them that don't.

I don't think it's very hard to realize they're not all the same. If it were as simple as mass*accerlation, then they should be...but they're not. There's two things you can do to prove this to yourself (I've done both):
1) Have a conversation with one or more of the engineers at the inertial dyno companies and ask them how they measure horsepower on their dyno. If you call them up, they probably won't talk to you. But if you catch them at a trade show, they usually bring some engineers and are pretty chatty.
2) You could also sit back and analyze the data they produce. If you do, it's pretty clear they aren't all the same; that they don't all rely on the same mass*acceration formula.

If inertial dyno's were straight physics mass*acceleration, then all inertial dyno's would produce the same results on the same car given the same weather conditions. But we know they don't. Mustang and Dyno Dynamics produce quite low results, whereas Dynojet and Superflow produce much higher results; and Land & Sea somewhere in between. Again, if it were straight physics (mass*acceleration), then they would all produce the same results on the same car in the same weather.

Dynojet believes their technology goes much farther than simple mass*acceration. They believe they are superior to the others; and while I can't remember precisely what they told me, I believe they said their technique to measure hp is patented. If it were straight mass*acceleration, then they wouldn't need to patent anything.

Dyno Dynamics doesn't use simple mass*acceration at all. They measure horsepower by measuring the tortional force applied to a spring. Want to cheat a Dyno Dynamics? Just stand on the spring during the dyno run.

Land & Sea dyno doesn't use simple mass*acceration either. They apply a small brake current to the rollers and measure the resistence against it.

I think we both agree that the noobs need some hand holding. That's why I think it would be ashamed for them to read your post and think that all inertial dyno's are the same, and that it's as simple as mass*acceration. That's clearly not the case, and the examples above demonstrate my point. Most, if not all of them employ proprietary technics to calculate horsepower that doesn't rely (and in some cases doesn't even use) the mass*acceration formula. In the truest sense, since they aren't satisfied with mass*accerlation themselves, they all employ some type of different technique to arrive at similar (though also vastly different) results.

Oh, you might want to look at some of the hub-attached dyno's and investigate how they operate. I think your comments about load bearing dyno's might have been made against load-bearing roller dyno's, not hub-attached dyno's. The hub-attached dyno's I'm familiar with don't operate anything like your description. I wanted to clarify that so the noobs wouldn't walk away with the wrong information.

[Supermassive]

Hey EZ, most people on here just have it out for Vivid and you by association. I live real close to Vivid so i will be getting the full kit through them as well...not to mention a bunch of other bits and pieces

[Coheed]

On some dynos you will see more loss with a higher gear because of different calibration and options for output measurement. Mustang dynos can add wind resistance, rolling resistance to the dyno numbers. This is why some dynos tend to be "heartbreakers".

Dynojets are consistent though, every time, every gear. More load is apparent in the powerband delivery, but peak power is nearly identical. Or at least within the run-to-run variance that can be expected.

Here's an example of 3rd vs 4th:


So the dyno could inflate numbers slightly based on the gear, so what? Throw the car on a different dyno altogether and BAM! you get a different number. The total number output is not of huge importance here, but rather, the gains of the system in comparison to the base number.

[Jayp]

Any update on the videos? I'm really wondering how the exhaust sounds inside and out.

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by EZWood

I read it, I guess I'm just trying to shove logic down these guys throats. Who needs logic when you have unicorn powered wankel motors? I should just wait till I have time slips and not let these guys get to me so much.

Don't let them get to you. Enjoy your car, let them bicker amongst themselves.

[EZWood]

The only thing that upsets me is that with all the accusations flying around it will muddy the truth, the truth is that I have the highest hp N/A frs so far, not only that, but the type of dyno it was done on is one that is known for producing low numbers.

[Tainen]

Originally Posted by EZWood

The only thing that upsets me is that with all the accusations flying around it will muddy the truth, the truth is that I have the highest hp N/A frs so far, not only that, but the type of dyno it was done on is one that is known for producing low numbers.

haha, not sure about that

I'm at +24whp right now too, +29whp up top (without pulley).

[xjohnx]

Originally Posted by EZWood

The only thing that upsets me is that with all the accusations flying around it will muddy the truth, the truth is that I have the highest hp N/A frs so far, not only that, but the type of dyno it was done on is one that is known for producing low numbers.

....so the only thing that upsets you with all the accusations flying around is that you're not getting credit for having "the highest hp N/A frs so far"?

Ego check.

[kwood9000]

Originally Posted by EZWood

The only thing that upsets me is that with all the accusations flying around it will muddy the truth, the truth is that I have the highest hp N/A frs so far, not only that, but the type of dyno it was done on is one that is known for producing low numbers.

Still would like to see a Dyno without the AP pulley to see what the exhaust system gains.

[EZWood]

Originally Posted by xjohnx

....so the only thing that upsets you with all the accusations flying around is that you're not getting credit for having "the highest hp N/A frs so far"?

Ego check.

Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Supermassive

Hey EZ, most people on here just have it out for Vivid and you by association. I live real close to Vivid so i will be getting the full kit through them as well...not to mention a bunch of other bits and pieces

Sound/"feel" is meaningless. He's not the first to get that reaction for that style post. And the other times Vivid wasn't involved at all. :shrug:

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by xjohnx

....so the only thing that upsets you with all the accusations flying around is that you're not getting credit for having "the highest hp N/A frs so far"?

Ego check.

I should stop by a buddys MD and do a pull.. "look at my 240whp STOCK BRZ!!! OMG!"