|
GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) General topics for the GR86 second-gen 86 |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
02-14-2022, 11:40 AM | #29 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,260
Thanks: 18,360
Thanked 16,454 Times in 7,447 Posts
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Electric motors have an RPM range where they are most efficient, though it is pretty broad. The powertrain we use at work is just a DC Sepex motor, our competitors have gone AC and tout the higher efficiency. The thing is, the RPM range we all run our motors is pretty much right at over the cross over point. If we were both running 3-400 RPM more they would have a claim. As of now, there claim doesn't justify the additional cost and cooling they have to run. So depending on what motor technology is being used and target use, there could be a reason to do it. Formula E runs multi speed gearboxes, but they usually only use 1st for the start and leave it in 2nd the rest of the time.
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to NoHaveMSG For This Useful Post: | EAGLE5 (02-14-2022), soundman98 (02-14-2022) |
02-14-2022, 12:09 PM | #30 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2020
Drives: '04 STi, '12 Mazda 3 Hatch
Location: Breckenridge, CO
Posts: 380
Thanks: 30
Thanked 122 Times in 89 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
In the Sur-ron world we play with gearing to achieve torque for wheelies and climbing, top speed, and efficiency at frequently used speeds. Everything is a trade off so a 2 or 3 speed would be great, but would add too much weight.
|
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Lelandjt For This Useful Post: |
02-14-2022, 12:34 PM | #31 |
Dismember
Join Date: Mar 2013
Drives: 2013 Red Scion FR-S
Location: Castro Valley
Posts: 5,562
Thanks: 2,153
Thanked 4,002 Times in 2,157 Posts
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
|
In the real world, engineering decisions are made for real world reasons. Companies that fail to make real world decisions end up dead. It reminds me of 3dfx, who didn't know where to go so they designed their chips for the requests of one customer and ended up unable to ship and behind on performance. NVIDIA ate their lunch.
__________________
|
02-14-2022, 01:27 PM | #32 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 2020 Hakone
Location: London, Ont
Posts: 69,845
Thanks: 61,656
Thanked 108,289 Times in 46,456 Posts
Mentioned: 2497 Post(s)
Tagged: 50 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
And in this real world only 2% of the ICE cars sold in the USA are MT. To think that they are ever going to put a true MT in an EV just to appease a tiny number of "enthusiasts" that would ever want or use one is plain silly. As many have said there just simply is no advantage to having a manual transmission in an EV for anybody except those that think driving means rowing through gears.
__________________
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar, because Racecar.
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Tcoat For This Useful Post: | Dadhawk (02-14-2022) |
02-14-2022, 01:50 PM | #33 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: JRSC BRZ SOLD
Location: Ohio
Posts: 939
Thanks: 678
Thanked 739 Times in 396 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
People live in a 0-70mph world. A 2 speed could extend range by 10-15% but the added costs (not complexity) to the consumer makes it a not starter for most makers.. There is not enough economy of scale to make it viable solution atm. Not for the refrigerator mass market cars that manufactures want to sell. Plaid Dad Teslas aren't a great examples to use as they don't/aren't meant to sell in droves. Its already traction limited so why bother with more speeds. But everyone isn't going to drive a $130K EV are they. EVs and hybrids are typically stretch purchases. 30-50mile more range for another $2k or is 300miles fine since you plug it in everyday anyway?
Battery tech is a more strategic solution than transmissions. If the batteries have more power density, you need less of them. Taking weight out improves range and driving dynamics though, 90% of consumer probably don't care about dynamics. Manufactures have basically been given an ultimatum when it comes to EV production. Getting batteries production and tech up is the top priority. Its not that multi-speeds don't have their merit. Manufactures need power sources right now to even compete in the market, so that's the focus. |
02-14-2022, 02:21 PM | #34 |
1st86 Driver!
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: '13 FR-S (#3 of 1st 86)
Location: Powder Springs, GA
Posts: 19,887
Thanks: 39,032
Thanked 25,092 Times in 11,446 Posts
Mentioned: 182 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
|
In an way, there are several EVs that do have the EV equivalent of a manual transmission anyway. Tesla has ludicrous mode, GM has WTF and WOW, and to a lesser extend Ford has "Unbridled".
All of these basically take the place of gearing to enhance the driving performance of the car when needed. Except instead of "engaging" your otherwise redundant foot, you let your fingers do the walking to pick the mode. Also, don't the Taycan and E-Tron GT have 2 gears? If so, there's your options.
__________________
Olivia 05/03/2012 - 01/06/2024. 231,146 glorious miles.
Visit my Owner's Journal where I wax philosophic on all things FR-S Post your 86 or see others in front of a(n) (in)famous landmark. What fits in your 86? Show us the "Junk In Your Trunk". |
02-14-2022, 02:39 PM | #35 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 2020 Hakone
Location: London, Ont
Posts: 69,845
Thanks: 61,656
Thanked 108,289 Times in 46,456 Posts
Mentioned: 2497 Post(s)
Tagged: 50 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
__________________
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar, because Racecar.
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Tcoat For This Useful Post: | soundman98 (02-14-2022) |
02-14-2022, 02:48 PM | #36 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2020
Drives: 2022 MT Neptune GR86 Prem.
Location: Cincinnati, OHIO
Posts: 492
Thanks: 143
Thanked 315 Times in 199 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Not sure I buy this as an explanation. I believe that range is a HUGE consideration for most pure EV's. Can't believe a relatively minor mechanical change would effect the manufacturing costs so much as to not be worth a look for a free 10-15% of additional range.
|
02-14-2022, 02:53 PM | #37 |
Dismember
Join Date: Mar 2013
Drives: 2013 Red Scion FR-S
Location: Castro Valley
Posts: 5,562
Thanks: 2,153
Thanked 4,002 Times in 2,157 Posts
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
|
A transmission might give off EPA range boosts. MIGHT. But the cars are designed for the EPA test. Or the WLTP test. Real world doesn't matter nearly as much.
Also most people need maybe 150 miles of range to cover 99% of driving days. Do you buy your car for the 1% of times? I don't. That's why all my cars have 5 seats and not 7. I'm not going to carry around another 500 lbs of vehicle just so I can take one car instead of two a handful of a times a year.
__________________
|
The Following User Says Thank You to EAGLE5 For This Useful Post: | ACT86 (02-14-2022) |
02-14-2022, 03:01 PM | #38 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 2020 Hakone
Location: London, Ont
Posts: 69,845
Thanks: 61,656
Thanked 108,289 Times in 46,456 Posts
Mentioned: 2497 Post(s)
Tagged: 50 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
__________________
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar, because Racecar.
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Tcoat For This Useful Post: | EAGLE5 (02-14-2022) |
02-14-2022, 03:04 PM | #39 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 2020 Hakone
Location: London, Ont
Posts: 69,845
Thanks: 61,656
Thanked 108,289 Times in 46,456 Posts
Mentioned: 2497 Post(s)
Tagged: 50 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
__________________
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar, because Racecar.
|
|
02-14-2022, 03:21 PM | #40 | |
1st86 Driver!
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: '13 FR-S (#3 of 1st 86)
Location: Powder Springs, GA
Posts: 19,887
Thanks: 39,032
Thanked 25,092 Times in 11,446 Posts
Mentioned: 182 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
How often do you drive with 4, 3 or 2 persons in the car? Is the right 90% solution really motorcycle? (I drive alone in the FRS about 99.8% of the time). Same with range. Even with my longer than average commute I only need 45 miles of range probably 95% of the time as my commute is 40 miles, I can charge at both home and work, and that allows for a 10% buffer. So, there's my commuting miles covered at 400 miles per week. Yet, it's also not unusual for me to take a 50 to 800 mile round trip over the weekend once or twice a month. That'll be fun (never mind impossible) with a 45 mile range car. (Although it would have been a perfect scenario for a Volt). To me, the EV "sweet spot" would be not to have a battery back that could take a car 1,000 miles, but to have the tech to carry a vehicle 300 miles, and charge to 80% in under 15 minutes on a dc charger. To do that, we need the current battery capacity to double in the same foot print, then reduce it size in half, lightning the car and reducing charging time. It's coming though I was skeptical at first, but I can see that it is very possible we'll have that by 2030 or before. I've said all along I don't care what powers my car, dead dinosaurs, dead dinosaurs turned into electricity, or unicorn tears, as long as i get in it it the morning point it in a direction and go without having to worry about where I'm going to refuel, or having to plan my day around that event.
__________________
Olivia 05/03/2012 - 01/06/2024. 231,146 glorious miles.
Visit my Owner's Journal where I wax philosophic on all things FR-S Post your 86 or see others in front of a(n) (in)famous landmark. What fits in your 86? Show us the "Junk In Your Trunk". |
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dadhawk For This Useful Post: | Dzmitry (02-15-2022), Ultramaroon (02-14-2022) |
02-14-2022, 03:30 PM | #41 | |
Dismember
Join Date: Mar 2013
Drives: 2013 Red Scion FR-S
Location: Castro Valley
Posts: 5,562
Thanks: 2,153
Thanked 4,002 Times in 2,157 Posts
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Once or twice a month is 18 times a year is about 5% of the time. Again, weigh the costs. The best way is to have ICE for the long trips and an EV for everything else. In other words, a 200-mile EV is going to be superior 95% of the time or more. An ICE is going to be superior up to 5% of the time. Are you going to be a two-car family? Meanwhile, my neighbor drives a Chevy 2500 diesel that he has never towed with once. Or carried a load a 1500 v6 couldn't have handled easily. He bought a vehicle for .000001% of the time.
__________________
|
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to EAGLE5 For This Useful Post: | Dadhawk (02-14-2022), Ultramaroon (02-14-2022) |
02-14-2022, 04:19 PM | #42 | ||
1st86 Driver!
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: '13 FR-S (#3 of 1st 86)
Location: Powder Springs, GA
Posts: 19,887
Thanks: 39,032
Thanked 25,092 Times in 11,446 Posts
Mentioned: 182 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Quote:
Or, he bought it for his 100% case. It was 100% what he wanted and he's never found a need it didn't meet (well except maybe running cost, but who knows maybe he likes the lady at the local fuel stop and wants to have an excuse to see her. Then again, a hooker would be cheaper).
__________________
Olivia 05/03/2012 - 01/06/2024. 231,146 glorious miles.
Visit my Owner's Journal where I wax philosophic on all things FR-S Post your 86 or see others in front of a(n) (in)famous landmark. What fits in your 86? Show us the "Junk In Your Trunk". |
||
|
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
A quick video tutorial on how to drive a stick shift:) | Andre Suwuh | FR-S & 86 Photos, Videos, Wallpapers, Gallery Forum | 2 | 03-17-2016 07:53 PM |
Shift knob vs a shift stick? | DVNARC | Cosmetic Modification (Interior/Exterior/Lighting) | 23 | 09-13-2015 07:33 AM |
Teaching wife to drive stick? | Nm86 | Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum | 58 | 03-26-2014 11:41 AM |
TGIF[R-S]: Can You Drive a Rear-Wheel Drive Sports Car All Year Long? | No5ki | Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum | 27 | 01-06-2013 08:30 PM |
To Drive a stick or cruise an Auto? | MrFRsLa | Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum | 54 | 04-30-2012 07:50 PM |