S2000 vs 86

[Kurochan]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I loved my S2000! Except for the wind noise... REALLY wish there'd been an S2k fixed-roof coupe and/or hatch!

FT86 steering is much better than the S2000's. MUCH better.

FT86 steering wheel adjust uppie/downie and also innie/outie vs. fixed s2000 wheel. And driver's seat also adjusts uppie/downie. So you can dial in your fit in the car. This is huge, I never cared for how high up you sit in the S2000 and the seat/steering wheel/pedals positioning wasn't quite right.

S2000 F20C engine is/was a fricking gem. I'd love to have that engine in my BRZ. But the FA20 is fine and also loves to rev, at least within the much lower rev range!

S2000 has *way* better weight distribution at 49F/51R, vs. FT86 at 55F/45R. Not *that* big a deal for most usage, but less than ideal at the track. You can dial in a good setup but mine still overworks the fronts with the rears being somewhat underutilized. Also if you want to add power, it won't be as easy to put it down due to nose-heavy.

Overall, I love the BRZ even more than I loved my S2000. It's a much more day-to-day liveable car and the MUCH better steering and perfectly dialed-in driver and steering wheel positioning make driving it more fun and more of a pleasure for 95% of my usage.

Would you say the 86 is less capable than the S on equal mods? I dont want to downgrade even if it means its a lot easier to drive.

Yea I miss having a coupe, the S feels claustrophobic with the top up

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[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Kurochan

Would you say the 86 is less capable than the S on equal mods? I dont want to downgrade even if it means its a lot easier to drive.

Yea I miss having a coupe, the S feels claustrophobic with the top up

Mod vs. mod, I think the S2000 is going to come out on top in terms of outright performance. I mean, same weight with +30 more hp and much better weight distribution, it has some pretty significant advantages...

But with a few relatively minor mods, my BRZ KILLS what my stock S2000 would do at the track. I mean KILLS it, by a couple/few to several *seconds*. And again the driving position and steering feel in the BRZ is WAY better. And fixed roof And you can fit a fair amount of stuff in it.

I don't think you'll be disappointed if you make the move, I'm not.

[Kurochan]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Mod vs. mod, I think the S2000 is going to come out on top in terms of outright performance. I mean, same weight with +30 more hp and much better weight distribution, it has some pretty significant advantages...

But with a few relatively minor mods, my BRZ KILLS what my stock S2000 would do at the track. I mean KILLS it, by a couple/few to several *seconds*. And again the driving position and steering feel in the BRZ is WAY better. And fixed roof And you can fit a fair amount of stuff in it.

I don't think you'll be disappointed if you make the move, I'm not.

Thats good to know thanks. What kind of mods if you dont mind me asking?

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[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Kurochan

Thats good to know thanks. What kind of mods if you dont mind me asking?

Camber plates (Raceseng) up front, stock camber isn't nearly enough...
Lowering springs (Swift Spec-R)
Struts/shocks (Bilstein B8), kind of necessary if you both lower the car and run camber plates, stock front struts don't have enough bump travel!
Eibach front/rear swaybars (*way* stiffer than stock)
4-2-1 header (ACE 350) and tune (Zach at CSG)

Obviously there's other ways to get there, I might go to coilovers next year but good lowering springs + Bilsteins makes for a great street/track compromise IMO.

I resorted to header/tune and sways this year because spring/damping rates are kinda soft for serious track usage and I compete in time trials and it was close this year!

Header and tune greatly improved drive from mid-rpm, more so than expected, but top end power not much more vs. stock '17+. Definitely not required.

[beltax90]

https://japanesenostalgiccar.com/maz...hter-nd-miata/



aw yeah baby!

[DarkSunrise]

I've tracked my friend's AP2 at Buttonwillow while instructing him and also driven it many times in the canyons. In terms of speed, an FR-S on e85 tune (2017 OEM header, mishimoto inlet tube, slight weight reduction) is about even 10-90 mph vs. stock AP2. Basically +/- 0.25 carlength. If you don't have e85, a good header and tune should give you about the same gains. Or buy a GR86 which is already 1-2 carlengths faster vs. AP2. The S2000 doesn't have great aero above 70 mph especially top down, which is something I noticed vs. AP1 (80-125 mph at the track).

Handling-wise vs. AP2, it will come down to setup/tires/driver. For whatever reason, my friend's AP2 feels more sensitive to trail-braking in the canyons, but on the track the overall balance is very similar to my FR-S (RCE T2 coilovers, track alignment, pedal dance). AP1 might be different with the bumpsteer. Balance aside, my car is faster than his AP2 in corners, but that's mainly due to tires and setup. Steering feel is better on the FR-S.

Also ergonomics are better in the FR-S. The FR-S seats have more bolstering and are more grippy (cloth vs. leather). The steering wheel extends/tilts. When I drove his AP2 at the track, my knee kept bumping into my bottom hand on the steering wheel in the middle of turns.

Can't really go wrong either way. I'm planning to trade my car in for a GR86. Briefly thought about buying an AP2, but I really enjoy the 86 chassis and a new GR86 seems a much better value vs. used S2000.

[Kurochan]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Camber plates (Raceseng) up front, stock camber isn't nearly enough...
Lowering springs (Swift Spec-R)
Struts/shocks (Bilstein B8), kind of necessary if you both lower the car and run camber plates, stock front struts don't have enough bump travel!
Eibach front/rear swaybars (*way* stiffer than stock)
4-2-1 header (ACE 350) and tune (Zach at CSG)

Obviously there's other ways to get there, I might go to coilovers next year but good lowering springs + Bilsteins makes for a great street/track compromise IMO.

I resorted to header/tune and sways this year because spring/damping rates are kinda soft for serious track usage and I compete in time trials and it was close this year!

Header and tune greatly improved drive from mid-rpm, more so than expected, but top end power not much more vs. stock '17+. Definitely not required.

So no power mods, just camber essentially. Thats awesome, were you running 215s?

Why didnt you go with a 4-1 header for top end power?

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[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Kurochan

So no power mods, just camber essentially. Thats awesome, were you running 215s?

Oh yeah, forgot, running 17x9 (Titan 7 and Wedsport TC105n) with 245/40-17s and/or 235/45-17s. Might run 225s next year depending on points allocations...

Why didnt you go with a 4-1 header for top end power?

I figured filling in midrange was more important. Only reason I got a header was a friend and competitor got one (friggin arms race). He got a good 4-1 and I got the ACE. He dynoed +5hp more peak but mine made way more midrange. I drove his car at Palmer and the lack of grunt going up the hill from 4-5 was very noticeable. Our max speeds at the end of the straight were the same. I was about 1/2-sec faster in time trials

[Ernest72]

I think we can say that these two cars as well as the Miata are close enough, that personal taste, likes, feelings etc have more to do with the choice than debating which one is better at this or that. Drive all three, examine your life/needs/wants and go with your gut. You can always sell and buy the other one, or own all three at some point in your life if you are lucky. They are not that expensive on the used market.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Kurochan

Why didnt you go with a 4-1 header for top end power?

99.9% of people over here will focus fixing the torque dip in middle rev range. There aren't that many to appreciate getting more power the higher they go in rpm. I guess times are changing and with so many turbos almost everywhere people nowadays have different expectations.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

99.9% of people over here will focus fixing the torque dip in middle rev range. There aren't that many to appreciate getting more power the higher they go in rpm. I guess times are changing and with so many turbos almost everywhere people nowadays have different expectations.

The torque dip never bothered me. Based on recommendations of people who have track experience with both, I went with the more midrangey header option over maximum peak for better performance at the track with a stock engine spinning to 7400-7600. As mentioned, my bud's same-year 86 with similar mods but 4-1 EL header had objectively less drive out of corners and no speed advantage on the straights despite 5 more peak whp.

Another big factor was that a used Ace-350 turned up in the classifieds...

[Yoshoobaroo]

The torque dip is only a problem if you’re in the wrong gear.

The end

[PorscheUnlimited16]

The s2000 Ap1 & Ap2 is the better sports car out of the box. The motor and transmissions til this day is still considered special. You either like roadsters or you don’t. Get a hardtop otherwise. The 86 is a good entry level sports car and does what it was intended for well but still not special like an s2000 is. One continues to go up in value, the other is a dime a dozen.

[MrDinkleman]

Originally Posted by beltax90

Miata Is Always The Solution!

Unless you want a coupe and don't live in Japan.

Oh, and it's Miata Is Always The Answer... Except if you want a coupe...