2022 GR86 Premium MT & AT Comparo

[Kona61]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Haven’t driven that one but I’m sure the mechanism is quite a bit cheaper than on the BRZ or WRX STI.

It’s all subjective in the end but the consensus is that the clutch pedal and shifter in this car is fantastic.

Keep in mind some people actually like the sloppy 986/996 shifter, so YMMV based on what you’re used to. To some people a really tight mechanism will feel too notchy.

I like very precise/mechanical shifters. Matter of fact, I was driving an AP2 S2K most of today and it reminded me how much I like them lol… but the current WRX uses a really subpar cable linkage. Hated how imprecise and undefined it was.

[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by kaputt

Good thing you aren't an auto exec. An auto exec that cut a transmission option that makes up over half the sales of a particular model would be an idiot.

The cutting of manuals happens in cars that have/had take rates in the single digits.

You are blinded as a car enthusiast. The sales of GR86 are meaningless compared to Toyota SUVs, crossovers and sedans. They sold about 2000ish in 2020, sales of hybrids alone were 330000. 55% is about let’s say 1200 cars. So really 1200 vs hundreds of thousands. Which is more important to that idiot auto exec?

[StE92ve]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

The transmission is a personal choice really based on what you need. Unfortunately many make it a pissing contest on which is better.

This. What I took away from the video is that if you plan on tracking the GR86, the MT is the better choice. OTOH, the AT for non-track driving would still make the GR86 a fun car. Bottom line, whichever transmission a buyer chooses, they will enjoy driving their GR86.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

You are blinded as a car enthusiast. The sales of GR86 are meaningless compared to Toyota SUVs, crossovers and sedans. They sold about 2000ish in 2020, sales of hybrids alone were 330000. 55% is about let’s say 1200 cars. So really 1200 vs hundreds of thousands. Which is more important to that idiot auto exec?

I’m still not sure what point you are trying to make in this post or anywhere in this thread.

[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

I’m still not sure what point you are trying to make in this post or anywhere in this thread.

Basically we are lucky we have an MT to choose from and that they are still making these cars since they sell so little compared to the rest of the car market.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

Basically we are lucky we have an MT to choose from and that they are still making these cars since they sell so little compared to the rest of the car market.

Not sure I get that from what you wrote, but we definitely agree on this point.

[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

Not sure I get that from what you wrote, but we definitely agree on this point.

Well the MT guys get all bent out of shape because the future of MTs is uncertain for sure.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

Well the MT guys get all bent out of shape because the future of MTs is uncertain for sure.

We get bent out of shape because people keep dismissing how many enthusiasts actually want a manual. It’s literally over half of BRZ/86 customers. It’s over 80% for WRX customers! Go to a BMW forum if you want to join the Auto apologists. They already accepted that they’re never getting a manual non-M car again.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

Well the MT guys get all bent out of shape because the future of MTs is uncertain for sure.

First, - are you an "MT guy" or aren't you? And being able to drive an MT and even liking it or a preferring it does not make you an "MT guy." You are an MT guy if and only if you limit your choices for your next car based upon whether or not you can get it in an MT (with possible exceptions for second cars).

And frankly, if you aren't an MT guy, then you can't really understand what the MT guys are saying so it doesn't really matter.

However, I don't see how anyone could possibly not acknowledge that the future of MTs is uncertain when the future of internal combustion is clearly uncertain?

My point was about the Corvette only in that I don't know how you could go from a car that not too long ago was only available in an MT to one that isn't even available with one. And while I acknowledge that businessmen who have access to a lot more information and experience than I do made that decision, I believe it has to be based upon Chevrolet trying to change the group of people that will buy the Corvette in the future rather than trying to convert many (if not the majority) of its current consumers from being MT guys to not being MT guys.

Indeed, would say the same thing about the twins - if they took away the MT option, you would lose this individual as a future buyer.

[Ernest72]

I completely understand and agree why the MT is more engaging, no debating that. All I am pointing out is that enthusiasts have tunnel vision and many don’t realize how little the number of people who are enthusiasts versus the broader market. The only reason we get these cars is because some auto execs are enthusiasts themselves. There are so many pressures working against the MT, let’s list some.

1. Overwhelming majority of people buying cars want AT.
2. More EVs in the future.
3. Car companies going to global architectures which favor AT over MT.
4. Car companies focused on what most people want which is SUVs, and crossovers.
5. Many companies making cross overs and SUVs with performance trims that enable someone to get an SUV instead of a sports car and have some semblance of performance.
6. Increasing traffic in big cities and even some small cities forcing many to switch to AT.
7. Older generation that drove MT their whole life, getting older with arthritis and other issues that are just forced to give up the MT.
8. People like my dad giving up all sport cars because they are too low to get in and out of.
9. Younger generation not even getting license to drive, let alone learning to drive MT.
10. Many supercars giving up on MT to cater to more buyers who are older and can afford them.
11. DCTs, PDK, improved ATs and the fact that some are faster than MT for racing.

What does MT have going for it?

A small number of enthusiasts compared to the whole market, racing, some car company collaborations and some remaining auto execs that are enthusiasts fighting for it. It’s not nothing, but it pales in comparison.

MTs will always be available in used cars and aftermarket options, so don’t see losing the MT in my lifetime. But if you want a new car in the future it is getting harder. Maybe things will change, what do I know.

[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

We get bent out of shape because people keep dismissing how many enthusiasts actually want a manual. It’s literally over half of BRZ/86 customers. It’s over 80% for WRX customers! Go to a BMW forum if you want to join the Auto apologists. They already accepted that they’re never getting a manual non-M car again.

For Subaru the BRZ and WRX sales numbers are tiny compared to foresters, and outback’s. Luckily, their branding with rally racing heritage has kept these cars around and I really don’t see them going away. But we could see more of what they did with the new WRX, where the AT is the higher trim and gets all the gadgets, while the MT is base. This will put even more pressure on people who wanted an MT but higher trim. Only thing stopping them is a CVT, if Subaru would offer a DCT or better AT you would see many more auto apologists.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

I completely understand and agree why the MT is more engaging, no debating that. All I am pointing out is that enthusiasts have tunnel vision and many don’t realize how little the number of people who are enthusiasts versus the broader market. The only reason we get these cars is because some auto execs are enthusiasts themselves. There are so many pressures working against the MT, let’s list some.

1. Overwhelming majority of people buying cars want AT.
2. More EVs in the future.
3. Car companies going to global architectures which favor AT over MT.
4. Car companies focused on what most people want which is SUVs, and crossovers.
5. Many companies making cross overs and SUVs with performance trims that enable someone to get an SUV instead of a sports car and have some semblance of performance.
6. Increasing traffic in big cities and even some small cities forcing many to switch to AT.
7. Older generation that drove MT their whole life, getting older with arthritis and other issues that are just forced to give up the MT.
8. People like my dad giving up all sport cars because they are too low to get in and out of.
9. Younger generation not even getting license to drive, let alone learning to drive MT.
10. Many supercars giving up on MT to cater to more buyers who are older and can afford them.
11. DCTs, PDK, improved ATs and the fact that some are faster than MT for racing.

What does MT have going for it?

A small number of enthusiasts compared to the whole market, racing, some car company collaborations and some remaining auto execs that are enthusiasts fighting for it. It’s not nothing, but it pales in comparison.

MTs will always be available in used cars and aftermarket options, so don’t see losing the MT in my lifetime. But if you want a new car in the future it is getting harder. Maybe things will change, what do I know.

We are back to where we started - not sure what you are advocating for or trying to tell me.

[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

We are back to where we started - not sure what you are advocating for or trying to tell me.

The title of thread says comparo. There is none, it’s all perspective, they are just choices and we are lucky to have them. Choose the one that best suits you and we can all stop debating which is “better”. Which means within a week/hour/minute, someone will post in this thread or another how MT is better, not realizing it’s just better for them. I agree with you that I think we are done here.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

The title of thread says comparo. There is none, it’s all perspective, they are just choices and we are lucky to have them. Choose the one that best suits you and we can all stop debating which is “better”. Which means within a week/hour/minute, someone will post in this thread or another how MT is better, not realizing it’s just better for them. I agree with you that I think we are done here.

Why can't we all just be friends and get along?

I agree though - to each their own! We can all enjoy the fact we still have an I.C.E. powered car... let alone a twin to enjoy!