All-New 2022 Subaru BRZ Makes Global Debut

[Dadhawk]

Either Subaru/Toyota have really backslid on the AT or the SavageGeese crew are having issues with driving an AT.

With my '13 I've never had any of the slowness of shift nor the inability to downshift manually in my car. I downshift from fourth to 2nd and 2nd to 1st all the time, never had it refuse to do so. The only time I've had it make a decision for me in manual mode is when I don't downshift fast enough to prevent a stall (usually rolling up to a stop sign in second, and not downshifting).

Some of it frankly just sounds like protesting for the sake of protesting they dare offer an AT in this car.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Either Subaru/Toyota have really backslid on the AT or the SavageGeese crew are having issues with driving an AT.

With my '13 I've never had any of the slowness of shift nor the inability to downshift manually in my car. I downshift from fourth to 2nd and 2nd to 1st all the time, never had it refuse to do so. The only time I've had it make a decision for me in manual mode is when I don't downshift fast enough to prevent a stall (usually rolling up to a stop sign in second, and not downshifting).

Some of it frankly just sounds like protesting for the sake of protesting they dare offer an AT in this car.

I wouldn't expect anything different from Savage. It is his style.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I wouldn't expect anything different from Savage. It is his style.

Well so much for credibility then.

[mazeroni]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Some of it frankly just sounds like protesting for the sake of protesting they dare offer an AT in this car.

To Mark's credit, he points out that there are no alternatives to this transmission except Subaru's CVT, so for the price and for what it does, the auto is fine; although agreeing it is nowhere near as modern as a ZF, Hyundai DCT, or Ford 10-speed.

On the part of Jack, he is coming at it from the perspective of someone who has driven modern performance transmissions. He wants the BRZ to be a mini Corvette (which he owns) or M car, which it isn't.

Granted, I haven't driven an automatic car in like 10 years. My last auto car was a Ford contour with a 4-speed, so I don't know what is good or bad.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

To Mark's credit, he points out that there are no alternatives to this transmission except Subaru's CVT, so for the price and for what it does, the auto is fine; although agreeing it is nowhere near as modern as a ZF, Hyundai DCT, or Ford 10-speed.

I guess I don't understand what a "modern" transmission brings to the table the one in my 86 doesn't already do, at least in manual mode. Obviously I'm neither a professional driver nor reviewer so I may be missing some fine tuned nuance.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I guess I don't understand what a "modern" transmission brings to the table the one in my 86 doesn't already do, at least in manual mode. Obviously I'm neither a professional driver nor reviewer so I may be missing some fine tuned nuance.

Less lag, instant shifts.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

Less lag, instant shifts.

OK. I guess I would have to drive something "better" to experience it and understand it.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

OK. I guess I would have to drive something "better" to experience it and understand it.

Yeah, the DCT in my 135i was awesome when driven in anger...........normal day-to-day driving, not so great.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

OK. I guess I would have to drive something "better" to experience it and understand it.

I kind of dont understand the transmission stuff either.

Between a traditional automatic and a DCT
Is it just the shift speed?

My X1's 8speed tranny shifts fast.....I cant imagine it shifting any faster than it to make a difference. the only thing i can really think of that would be "better" is if the shifts were "smoother", its already pretty fast and smooth as is.

And paddle response....the only thing that matters to me is if it actually response immediately to a click, which mine does if the car is in sport mode and driven hard. Its slow and kind of laggy when driven leisurely. I found that behavior the same in the FRS auto i test drove along time ago.

Ive heard DCT's "feels" like a manual but it never did to me...just felt like an automatic with a bit more herky jerkiness to it when accelerating from a stop.

[Veloist]

I enjoyed the ZF8 transmission in the GR Supra. It was instant and quick both up and down the gears. Don't know how to explain but even when I wasn't using the paddle shifters, there was a crisp sensation when it shifted especially under hard acceleration. It was very tactile.

I can't say for sure it beats using a clutch though and feeling the shifter go into gear, especially a mechanical one like the twins. A great auto transmission is great for performance and no matter which way you look at it, having a great performing vehicle is pretty enjoyable...

I've driven plenty of 86's in Auto. They shift quickly up and down too. It's not an instant feeling like the ZF8 and it's not as tactile.

But if you haven't driven any other great-performing autos, the 86's auto transmission is pretty good.

[Goingnowherefast]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Either Subaru/Toyota have really backslid on the AT or the SavageGeese crew are having issues with driving an AT.

Eh, it's really a demonstrably bad transmission in 2021. Sure, if you don't drive a lot of modern cars then it might seem adequate. Fortunately, my position allows me to drive nearly ever production vehicle in existence, and I can say with confidence it's a very meh AT. We've also benchmarked the transmission, and even from an efficiency standpoint (spin loss) it rates very poorly.

Worth noting the one in the ND2 Miata is equally as meh. Not a huge deal, since you really shouldn't be getting the AT in these vehicles unless you have a health issue or you hate having fun.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast

Eh, it's really a demonstrably bad transmission in 2021. Sure, if you don't drive a lot of modern cars then it might seem adequate. Fortunately, my position allows me to drive nearly ever production vehicle in existence, and I can say with confidence it's a very meh AT. We've also benchmarked the transmission, and even from an efficiency standpoint (spin loss) it rates very poorly.

I would expect a 10 year old transmission design (like the one in my car) not to stand up to current day design, assuming the OEMs are continuing to evolve the species, which obviously they are. Therefore, I would expect the 2022 AT to be better not worse, or even the same. If it is no improvement, or it has backslid, then yea MT all the way.

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast

Worth noting the one in the ND2 Miata is equally as meh. Not a huge deal, since you really shouldn't be getting the AT in these vehicles unless you have a health issue or you hate having fun.

Had to just throw that last insult in didn't you? Couldn't let it go. It's OK I accept your right to be wrong.

[nikitopo]

A health issue or hate to have fun in AT? Omg ..

[mazeroni]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

My X1's 8speed tranny shifts fast.....I cant imagine it shifting any faster than it to make a difference. the only thing i can really think of that would be "better" is if the shifts were "smoother", its already pretty fast and smooth as is.

That is a ZF8 speed, right?

A lot of journalists talk about that transmission like it is 2nd only to Porsche's PDK. Which makes sense considering it is a more premium transmission and is found in nearly everything over $40K.

For reference - PDK

Can't find a comparable ZF clip. But FRS for comparo... not that bad considering the price.