KPower Industries K24 swap

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Personally, it is cool to compete, but the experience should be the same. In a field of mixed racers finishing slower and faster, if you finished 10th overall that could be 1st in one class or last place in the next class, but in the end, the person was still 10th overall and still drove the car the same, so what does it matter? Prize money? Sponsorships?

It's kind of a mixed bag and really depends on how serious you are and who the organization is. NASA uses power/weight then factors in other things like aero for their classing. SCCA TT really isn't well hashed out, but is okay enough to keep certain platforms from becoming too OP. GTA has really odd classing and the leap from Enthusiast to Street requires a crapload of dollars to be competitive, they also don't allow cross manufacture swaps in anything but unlimited and their are little changes that will bump you a class or two. In SCCA K24 swap would put me up one class. Just adding stiffer valve springs in the FA20, also up one class I do it for the fun so I am not really worried. Those that are serious will build their car to maximize their class rules. I ran the next class up anyway at NW Speed Summit because there where not any other cars in Max 4 when I signed up. 3 ended up signing up the day of but I said screw it, I was there for the fun.

[funkjaw]

Apparently 4.56 ring and pinion is the way to go with this swap (NA at least). Anyone know the best place to source this? Would like a complete package I can just drop off along with my diff unit at a rear end shop and have them install it in my diff for me.

[vintagemxer]

TRL The racers Line, concord. Weir is not to far away, great set-up :pa
rty0030:

[Irace86.2.0]

I got the K-tuned EP3 pulley installed, which I got because it allows for extra tension adjustment and looks nice. I got the Hybrid Racing plug installed. I thought I purchased the plug prematurely because normally it is used to block off the heater core for track cars, and I want my heater working, so I contacted Kpower. They said the Hybrid Racing plug is necessary with their coolant setup irregardless. They said they will be working on the install guide soon, so when that is released, it will be more clear how they routed everything.

The other thing they sent was an Amazon link to the coolant adapters (first link). They sent one link, but there are two different adapters. The 1.5'' to 1.25'' adapters go from the radiator to a smaller diameter hose leading to the back of the motor or the thermostat, but they also seem to show a 1.25'' to 1.25'' adapter extending the coolant hose. Only two adapters will likely be needed in the future because they plan on making silicone hoses, but until then, I think three adapters might be necessary unless you can find a single long hose with a curve from the back of the motor to the passenger side of the radiator (see picture below).

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KQDYYPT...v_ov_lig_dp_it
https://www.amazon.com/Splice-Couple..._t2_B07KQDYYPT




The other thing I wonder is how the heater hoses will mount up or if we will need to remove/cut off the rear brace mounts or what else is involved. I don't know what it will be like removing my strut bar and two rear braces in terms of handling and chassis stiffness.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by funkjaw

Apparently 4.56 ring and pinion is the way to go with this swap (NA at least). Anyone know the best place to source this? Would like a complete package I can just drop off along with my diff unit at a rear end shop and have them install it in my diff for me.

It will be situation dependent. Running on street run what you like. Assuming stockish K24 with around 76-7800rpm redline I think it will be too low. I know it is a bit too low at 2 of the 4 major NW tracks with an FA20 as is.

[captain awesome]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I got the K-tuned EP3 pulley installed, which I got because it allows for extra tension adjustment and looks nice. I got the Hybrid Racing plug installed. I thought I purchased the plug prematurely because normally it is used to block off the heater core for track cars, and I want my heater working, so I contacted Kpower. They said the Hybrid Racing plug is necessary with their coolant setup irregardless. They said they will be working on the install guide soon, so when that is released, it will be more clear how they routed everything.

The other thing they sent was an Amazon link to the coolant adapters (first link). They sent one link, but there are two different adapters. The 1.5'' to 1.25'' adapters go from the radiator to a smaller diameter hose leading to the back of the motor or the thermostat, but they also seem to show a 1.25'' to 1.25'' adapter extending the coolant hose. Only two adapters will likely be needed in the future because they plan on making silicone hoses, but until then, I think three adapters might be necessary unless you can find a single long hose with a curve from the back of the motor to the passenger side of the radiator (see picture below).

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KQDYYPT...v_ov_lig_dp_it
https://www.amazon.com/Splice-Couple..._t2_B07KQDYYPT


The other thing I wonder is how the heater hoses will mount up or if we will need to remove/cut off the rear brace mounts or what else is involved. I don't know what it will be like removing my strut bar and two rear braces in terms of handling and chassis stiffness.

For the hose that runs from the back of the head to the rad on the passenger side I wonder if a re-route silicone hose from a Supermiata Qmax kit would work. No need to splice, and the hose they use actually curves pretty easily. I have one in the garage but until the engine is in the bay I couldn't confirm or deny fitment.

[steved]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

It will be situation dependent. Running on street run what you like. Assuming stockish K24 with around 76-7800rpm redline I think it will be too low. I know it is a bit too low at 2 of the 4 major NW tracks with an FA20 as is.

Agreed, depends what your redline is, which tracks you run, or if you're drag racing. Also how much tq your engine makes and where in the rev range it makes it. Too many variables for a catch all statement.

When I had my head in the clouds and thought I'd do this swap with a 4piston k360 @9k rpm my target was a 5.3 FD.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by captain awesome

For the hose that runs from the back of the head to the rad on the passenger side I wonder if a re-route silicone hose from a Supermiata Qmax kit would work. No need to splice, and the hose they use actually curves pretty easily. I have one in the garage but until the engine is in the bay I couldn't confirm or deny fitment.

I'm not familiar. If you figure something out that is basic and fits then please share. I asked Kpower straight up if they knew of anything that might fit like if a Cadillac Eldorado's hose just happens to fit, and they said they aren't aware of anything, and they are planning to make all silicone hose kits for all their swap kits. I planned on going down to the local Autozone and sifting through the hoses in the back to see if something preformed existed.

I feel like the stock hoses might be able to be cut or work for part of the distance. I think that is what Kpower did on the passenger one. I mocked it up, and it curves right to the frame rail. Unless you can find a hose that transitions in size or stretches over two different ODs then it will take two sized hoses with adapters. I plan to wait to buy the adapters and hoses until the engine is in, but it would be nice to find some off-the-shelf silicone hoses. The plan was just to do something cheap and then to buy the Kpower stuff if I wanted something that looked better, but I'm down to find something sooner too.

Mishimoto and several companies make silicone hoses for the 86. If we needed new hoses then I guess we could use something like this and then finish off the rest. I don't know if we could email Mishimoto to see if they have some hoses in the specs we need. Seems like it'll have to wait until we have the engines in and have the specs to provide them.

https://www.mishimoto.com/silicone-r...AaAt_iEALw_wcB




This is a 1.5'' ID hose for a mustang that looking like it would work on the passenger side to the radiator.

https://www.mishimoto.com/classic-fo...ose-67-69.html




This one looks like it could fit the lower hose. I'll probably just get something cheap from Autozone and then wait for the upgrade to drop on Kpower.

https://www.mishimoto.com/classic-ch...ose-68-77.html

[funkjaw]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

It will be situation dependent. Running on street run what you like. Assuming stockish K24 with around 76-7800rpm redline I think it will be too low. I know it is a bit too low at 2 of the 4 major NW tracks with an FA20 as is.

Well my reasoning is I just want redline to be 60mph in 2nd gear, so if I punch in these numbers:
4.56 FD
24.7" Tire Height
2.18 2nd gear ratio
8100-8200 Redline (This is a safe/conservative redline for a k24a2 with type S pump and 50 degree vtc from everything I have read but I could be wrong!!)
This gives me 59.9-60.64 mph top speed in 2nd gear at redline so seems like the 4.56 is absolutely perfect.

Of course the other option I am considering is the 4.3 from a 2017+ which would save me a lot of hassle of figuring out the best 4.56 gear package to select.

Either way I want to do gears 100% as I will be getting an OS Giken Super Loc LSD installed at the same time.

[captain awesome]

Originally Posted by funkjaw

Well my reasoning is I just want redline to be 60mph in 2nd gear, so if I punch in these numbers:
4.56 FD
24.7" Tire Height
2.18 2nd gear ratio
8100-8200 Redline (This is a safe/conservative redline for a k24a2 with type S pump and 50 degree vtc from everything I have read but I could be wrong!!)
This gives me 59.9-60.64 mph top speed in 2nd gear at redline so seems like the 4.56 is absolutely perfect.

Of course the other option I am considering is the 4.3 from a 2017+ which would save me a lot of hassle of figuring out the best 4.56 gear package to select.

Either way I want to do gears 100% as I will be getting an OS Giken Super Loc LSD installed at the same time.

I'll probably wait to mess with gearing ratios, but wanted to know now that it's been mentioned what is considered a safe redline with the RSX oil pump? I was under the assumption 8500 was a safe spot, but you saying below that makes me question what I've read up until now.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by captain awesome

I'll probably wait to mess with gearing ratios, but wanted to know now that it's been mentioned what is considered a safe redline with the RSX oil pump? I was under the assumption 8500 was a safe spot, but you saying below that makes me question what I've read up until now.

Personally, I wouldn’t go that high. I know these motors are strong. I have seen crazy dyno pulls on boosted stock blocks, but if you plan to track the car with any amount of reliability then I wouldn’t hang the revs around 8500 on some straight away. This engine has a 99mm stroke, which is far from the 86mm stroke of the FA20, FA24 or K20. The redline on the K24a2 is 7100. Going to 8500 seems like a push. I’ve read people doing it, but how long does the engine last. I’m going 7500-8000 for now until I get some piston n rods n bearings that will survive those rpms. I’ll be boosted though. I’ve read 8200 is common enough. I don’t know that the car makes power in a way that justifies 8500. It may be bad for performance and bad for the engine. The engine is cheap enough that you could push it to 8500 to experiment. Probably need some high duration cams if you plan to do that, so you can make power at least.

Conversation here with some very amateur comments mixed in. The consensus is the piston speeds are too fast, and the motor doesn’t make the power up top to justify it. Because the piston speed is faster on a K24 than a K20, valve duration and maybe lift would need to increase to supply the air needed, or the engine just won’t be breathing well enough to make power. Adding FI can help fix the flow issue obviously, so some k24s will make power up top, but I think you will need cams and port n polish to make enough flow for power to justify 8500 NA.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-mo...500rpm-822723/

https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-mo...-motor-806073/

https://www.clubrsx.com/threads/k24-rev-limit.1252306/

Blue is 8000. Red is 8400. Torque at both rpms is actually lower than pre-VTEC. Power is less smooth on the red, but for all intensive purposes, it is basically flat making little justification to rev so high. He had a built head on a stock block.


https://www.k20a.org/threads/all-mot...numbers.82177/

[Irace86.2.0]

This too. I would consider more headwork if NA power is what you want. Consider a 4Piston head too if you really want to go all out. If you have the flow to justify the rpms then build the bottom to rev it out, but without larger valves, larger cams and a port job, there is little reason to rev out the motor, and the bottom end will thank you.

https://kpower.industries/blogs/news/k24a2-dyno-testing

[captain awesome]

Sounds like 8200 will be where I'll stay then. As of right now I don't plan to go crazy on mods since my wallet is not in a healthy place right now. Kpower drained me.

[ML]

k20z3 head is the good one for a k24a2 right?