No Brembos = suck

[trippinbillies40]

Originally Posted by s30series

Ahh yes- because pads and RBF is the cure to brake fade.

Hopefully Brembo, Wilwood, AP Racing, etc doesn't find out this revelation

Ok, so please enlighten me.

Question one: If pads getting so hot they begin to melt (glaze), and fluid getting so hot it begins to boil and put air in the system are not the causes of brake fade, what specifically is happening to the caliper that is causing it? What are Brembos, AP Racing, etc doing to prevent brake fade?

Question two: why do Brembo and AP racing offer different compounds of brake pads for different applications? If pads and fluid are not the cause of brake fade, why would one need a different pad for racing than street driving?

Question three, and this is the most important one: please respond to video evidence posted of many time national road racing champion John Heinracy putting in 30 minutes at full tilt at one of the hardest-on-brakes tracks in North America, all while experiencing zero brake fade on stock calipers. How is this possible?

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by gen3v8

Give me some pointers. I love em

Don’t eat yellow snow.

[s30series]

Originally Posted by weederr33

I think you should focus more on tire compound and weight loss over brake fade. That's what Ken Miles taught me.

Thermal capacity....how does it work?!???

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by s30series

Ahh yes- because pads and RBF is the cure to brake fade.

Hopefully Brembo, Wilwood, AP Racing, etc doesn't find out this revelation

Proof is in the video. Would you like more? There is in car from two of the cars in that race.

Let me guess, you were running EBC yellows?


Don’t forget stoptech.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by s30series

Thermal capacity....how does it work?!???

https://www.racetechnologies.com/art...mal%20capacity.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by s30series

Thermal capacity....how does it work?!???

more mass does equal more thermal capacity. but none of those kits do anything better for dissipation than the oem rotors/calipers.

in fact, one could argue that the dual piston oem setup with a smaller overall caliper sizing would inherently increase rotor thermal dissipation, and allow for better thermal loading because there's more area for the rotor vanes to cool due to the smaller caliper, as well as less fluid is exposed to the heat.

thermal capacity works great until it doesn't. and then it works against you.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by weederr33

https://www.racetechnologies.com/art...mal%20capacity.

i'm confused. they only talk about rotors, they don't say anything about installing bigass calipers.

clearly they don't have any idea what racecars do. back to the nursery for you so you can think about what you've done. don't come back to the adult table until you can post a link to a company that actually knows something about race cars.

[trippinbillies40]

Originally Posted by s30series

Thermal capacity....how does it work?!???

Not going to answer my questions looks like.

So for those wondering, we can put this one to bed. Stock calipers with good pads and fluid is plenty for even the most aggressive track day drivers.

[s30series]

Originally Posted by soundman98

i'm confused. they only talk about rotors, they don't say anything about installing bigass calipers.

clearly they don't have any idea what racecars do. back to the nursery for you so you can think about what you've done. don't come back to the adult table until you can post a link to a company that actually knows something about race cars.

Weird....I could have sworn the performance package on the gen1 included larger discs along with the larger pad area capable calipers.....

Send an email to AP Racing and tell them to close up shop- stock BRZ brakes are good enough!

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by trippinbillies40

Not going to answer my questions looks like.

So for those wondering, we can put this one to bed. Stock calipers with good pads and fluid is plenty for even the most aggressive track day drivers.

They won't answer it. At this point they know they are in the wrong but just dodge it nonstop.

[Stonehorsw]

Originally Posted by trippinbillies40

Ok, so please enlighten me.

Question one: If pads getting so hot they begin to melt (glaze), and fluid getting so hot it begins to boil and put air in the system are not the causes of brake fade, what specifically is happening to the caliper that is causing it? What are Brembos, AP Racing, etc doing to prevent brake fade?

Question two: why do Brembo and AP racing offer different compounds of brake pads for different applications? If pads and fluid are not the cause of brake fade, why would one need a different pad for racing than street driving?

Question three, and this is the most important one: please respond to video evidence posted of many time national road racing champion John Heinracy putting in 30 minutes at full tilt at one of the hardest-on-brakes tracks in North America, all while experiencing zero brake fade on stock calipers. How is this possible?

1. Bigger pad swept area decreasing specific load
2. Increased pad material volume/mass decreasing temperature
3. Improved backplate design decreasing temperature transfer to caliper pistons
4. Possibly of using piston ring to reduce temperature transfer to piston
5. Better rotor vane design to improve temperature loss
6. Better pad pressure distribution, reducing heat spots
7. Improved pad to rotor clearance, reducing residual drag
8. Reduced temperature gradient between inner and outer pads

[trippinbillies40]

Originally Posted by Stonehorsw

1. Bigger pad swept area decreasing specific load
2. Increased pad material volume/mass decreasing temperature
3. Improved backplate design decreasing temperature transfer to caliper pistons
4. Possibly of using piston ring to reduce temperature transfer to piston
5. Better rotor vane design to improve temperature loss
6. Better pad pressure distribution, reducing heat spots
7. Improved pad to rotor clearance, reducing residual drag
8. Reduced temperature gradient between inner and outer pads

I'm definitely 100% not arguing that there are benefits to Brembos/AP Racing/Wilwood, etc. I get it. There are many, many benefits. I'm ordering better brakes for my car.

What I'm stating is that dude should not have made a snide remark at another person who stated that you don't need Brembos for track days. Because you most certainly do not.

[Stonehorsw]

Originally Posted by trippinbillies40

I'm definitely 100% not arguing that there are benefits to Brembos/AP Racing/Wilwood, etc. I get it. There are many, many benefits. I'm ordering better brakes for my car.

What I'm stating is that dude should not have made a snide remark at another person who stated that you don't need Brembos for track days. Because you most certainly do not.

Got it. I will look into AP, Sparta and Brembo in the future and decide which one would best fit my needs. It will depend if I have the funds/guts to put the car on track or not.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by s30series

Weird....I could have sworn the performance package on the gen1 included larger discs along with the larger pad area capable calipers.....

Send an email to AP Racing and tell them to close up shop- stock BRZ brakes are good enough!

Capable of doing the job, and right for the job are not the same thing. The issue with stock brakes is you go through pads/rotors/fluid much quicker. Not that they don't work. Again, as evident by the guys who have to race on stock calipers.

Originally Posted by weederr33

They won't answer it. At this point they know they are in the wrong but just dodge it nonstop.

Can't answer it is more like it.

Originally Posted by Stonehorsw

Got it. I will look into AP, Sparta and Brembo in the future and decide which one would best fit my needs. It will depend if I have the funds/guts to put the car on track or not.

Unless you are tracking at least 6 times a year, and plan to do so for at least 3+ years, it is not really worth it. Think of how many pads/rotors you can buy for 2k. If you do look at BBK look at what consumables cost and availability. The AP kit has a common pad shape. Stoptech also uses common pad shape, but the friction rings are about 100/ea more then the AP's. The Brembo GT kit is more money for similar performance at supposed higher quality.