COVID Developments and News

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

Some things to remember.

1. Many people who chose not to get the vaccine take other socially responsible precautions to avoid possibly endangering others.
2. Getting the vaccine does not prevent one from infecting someone else with Covid; we shouldn't, and CAN'T, blame every case of Covid on unvaccinated people.
3. Vaccinated people are far less likely to require hospitalization in the event of a breakthrough infection, and that is indeed an excellent reason to get the vaccine especially if one has other risk factors, both for one's own safety and to keep hospital beds open for others. However, getting the vaccine is not an equally sure protection against being infected with Covid, nor against infecting others.

Unlike our president, I do not understand the anger and desire to blame those who chose not to get the vaccine for anything, at least based solely upon not getting the vaccine. Anger is never helpful, and blame rarely is, but blaming unvaccinated people who also put others at risk by not avoiding crowds, not isolating when ill, not getting tested when unable to meet these criteria...ok. However, if blame needs to be assigned and anger felt, then vaccinated people must be co-recipients of some if and when they similarly engage in practices that may affect others.

Rather than being angry with each other for the ways we choose to ensure our safety and those around us, perhaps we should focus the blame on the virus itself, and any humans who may have had a hand in its existence and release. The leap in logic required to label someone who would rather take measures other than the vaccine to protect themselves and others as a murderer and hateful person who is the cause of this is beyond me.

That highlighted part is absolutely not true.

[MuseChaser]

Originally Posted by weederr33

That highlighted part is absolutely not true.

It was true for me before I got vaccinated. It's true for the vast majority of people I know personally who are not vaccinated. It may very well be untrue for some who are not vaccinated, and may be the norm for the unvaccinated people you know. There is nothing "absolute" about either. I did not say "every," I said "many." In my experience, it is true. I don't deny that others have different experiences.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by weederr33

That highlighted part is absolutely not true.

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

It was true for me before I got vaccinated. It's true for the vast majority of people I know personally who are not vaccinated. It may very well be untrue for some who are not vaccinated, and may be the norm for the unvaccinated people you know. There is nothing "absolute" about either. I did not say "every," I said "many." In my experience, it is true. I don't deny that others have different experiences.

My experience does show a portion of the unvaccinated actively using some other mechanisms to prevent the spread of known or suspected COVID-19 infection. However, I have found the same people to be somewhat complacent until after someone shows up with COVID-19. The vaccine would be far more effective because of that.

[MuseChaser]

Originally Posted by Spuds

My experience does show a portion of the unvaccinated actively using some other mechanisms to prevent the spread of known or suspected COVID-19 infection. However, I have found the same people to be somewhat complacent until after someone shows up with COVID-19. The vaccine would be far more effective because of that.

Agreed. In addition to the potentially unvaccinated people we see, there are many, including myself, that generally are not seen simply because we live relatively solitary or isolated lives just out of personal preference. Probably no way to answer the following question, but what the heck... perhaps it's just rhetorical...

Who is more likely to spread Covid; an unvaccinated person who goes out for groceries once a week and lives in a rural area with no neighbors, maintaining separation at all times, or a vaccinated person who lives in a congested area, works daily with many coworkers in person, and goes out to dinner a few times a week?

[MyHybridBurnsGasAndTires]

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

Who is more likely to spread Covid; an unvaccinated person who goes out for groceries once a week and lives in a rural area with no neighbors, maintaining separation at all times, or a vaccinated person who lives in a congested area, works daily with many coworkers in person, and goes out to dinner a few times a week?

yes, there are exactly two scenarios to choose from.

[MuseChaser]

Originally Posted by MyHybridBurnsGasAndTires

yes, there are exactly two scenarios to choose from.

I didn't say that, nor did I imply that, nor do I think that. You have made my point for me; there are not exactly two scenarios in the vaccinated vs. "anti-vaxxer" debate, as many depict it. That IS the point.

[Dadhawk]

@MuseChaser, I agree with most of your statements. I'll happily accept ivermectin (or a massive dose of Hershey Kisses for that matter) once it is actually proven safe and effective, but idiots running down to the feed store to dose up on it will never make sense.

Not sure I understand "However, getting the vaccine is not an equally sure protection against being infected with Covid, nor against infecting others." because it certainly is a better solution than going unvaccinated, unless you live in a quarantine bubble. Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

On another note, my son's quarantine ended yesterday. He got his smell/taste back on day 7 and that had been his only symptom.

[MuseChaser]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

@MuseChaser, I agree with most of your statements. I'll happily accept ivermectin (or a massive dose of Hershey Kisses for that matter) once it is actually proven safe and effective, but idiots running down to the feed store to dose up on it will never make sense.

Not sure I understand "However, getting the vaccine is not an equally sure protection against being infected with Covid, nor against infecting others." because it certianly is a better solution than going unvaccinated, unless you live in a quarantine bubble. Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

On another note, my son's quarantine ended yesterday. He got his smell/taste back on day 7 and that had been his only symptom.

Glad to hear things went well for your son and he's back to enjoying all five senses. Thanks for the reply, and I apologize for the lack of clarity in the statement you quoted above. What I was trying to say, and please DO correct me if I'm wrong, is that the vaccine's highest success is in preventing serious infections that result in death or hospitalization. It's success in preventing mild breakthrough infections or carrying the virus to others is less, but still of course very significant and helpful.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

Agreed. In addition to the potentially unvaccinated people we see, there are many, including myself, that generally are not seen simply because we live relatively solitary or isolated lives just out of personal preference. Probably no way to answer the following question, but what the heck... perhaps it's just rhetorical...

Who is more likely to spread Covid; an unvaccinated person who goes out for groceries once a week and lives in a rural area with no neighbors, maintaining separation at all times, or a vaccinated person who lives in a congested area, works daily with many coworkers in person, and goes out to dinner a few times a week?

The latter, but that's counting two extremes. The vast majority of people fall in the middle. And deviation from the former even once a month (seeing extended family, business meeting, church, etc) makes it a much more difficult question to answer, because not everyone in those circles follows the same routine. If somebody wants to be a hermit and can live in that manner that's fine, but they also aren't the ones under pressure to get the vaccine and probably don't have any stake in the matter. The people who are most vocally anti-vaccine the vaccine definitely aren't hermits.

[MyHybridBurnsGasAndTires]

Originally Posted by Spuds

The latter, but that's counting two extremes. The vast majority of people fall in the middle. And deviation from the former even once a month (seeing extended family, business meeting, church, etc) makes it a much more difficult question to answer, because not everyone in those circles follows the same routine. If somebody wants to be a hermit and can live in that manner that's fine, but they also aren't the ones under pressure to get the vaccine and probably don't have any stake in the matter. The people who are most vocally anti-vaccine the vaccine definitely aren't hermits.

exactly and the venn diagram of people who are very recently anti-vax and those who were (or still are) claiming the virus is "fake" or "no different than the flu" are two perfectly overlapping circles.

[MuseChaser]

Originally Posted by Spuds

The latter, but that's counting two extremes. The vast majority of people fall in the middle. And deviation from the former even once a month (seeing extended family, business meeting, church, etc) makes it a much more difficult question to answer, because not everyone in those circles follows the same routine. If somebody wants to be a hermit and can live in that manner that's fine, but they also aren't the ones under pressure to get the vaccine and probably don't have any stake in the matter. The people who are most vocally anti-vaccine the vaccine definitely aren't hermits.

Agreed with all, except with a clarification/stipulation on the last sentence. The jump from labeling those who are anti-mandate to being anti-vaccine is made far too easily and far too frequently. There are people who are illogically opposed to the vaccine itself, granted, but, and again I'm speaking from my personal experience and not for every pocket of humanity across the fruited plain, the most vocal in my experience have been anti-mandate, including myself, and not anti-vaccine. Many of those opposing the mandates, and again speaking from my experience, are vaccinated.

[cjd]

Two things to say responding to some of the latest:
1. There are SO many important results from being vaccinated. Like relieving pressure on the health care system. Stop pretending the only useful outcome is complete protection. It started off well on that front but the virus has mutated and we've learned...
2. If you are not anti-vaccine but are anti-mandate, stop the whining and step up with effective alternatives to get us to a place people arent sentenced to death because the ER was full and they had an unrelated issue needing immediate care. Non-mandate alternatives certainly been tried, with (usually predictable) failure as the main outcome.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by cjd

Two things to say responding to some of the latest:
1. There are SO many important results from being vaccinated. Like relieving pressure on the health care system. Stop pretending the only useful outcome is complete protection. It started off well on that front but the virus has mutated and we've learned...
2. If you are not anti-vaccine but are anti-mandate, stop the whining and step up with effective alternatives to get us to a place people arent sentenced to death because the ER was full and they had an unrelated issue needing immediate care. Non-mandate alternatives certainly been tried, with (usually predictable) failure as the main outcome.

YES! Great point! Ok, anti-mandate people, as the well-known manager's mantra says. "Don't tell me about the problems. Show me your solutions."

Do you have any better ideas?

[wbradley]

. Doctors prescribe medications, and no Canadian or American doctor wants to, or will prescribe Ivermectin for Covid19 treatment. Musechaser, you seem to have a fixation with it. . How is the real world somehow running away with some people? If a medication passes a clinical trial proving it safe and effective, and is approved for use, it can be prescribed. I predict that will not happen. No doubt the license holder would be throwing money at it if they felt it could pass clinical approval.
Do you condone taking non-approved prescription medication? Maybe a 1:20 dilution of the oral syringe from the Co-op store will do the trick. At least it will cure worms and maybe scabies.

Musechaser, if your mother was 90 and living in a nursing home, would you argue the rights of antivaxxers to work there? They could have 2 PCR tests weekly, and hopefully detect an infection they are far more likely to catch. I'm not so free wheelin'. And apparently trusting others doesn't work since I lost my father despite being in lockdown for months prior to infection. He only had contact with 1 or 2 people, PSWs, and we put our trust in them. And they probably put their trust in their familys and friends at Christmas, resulting in my Dad being infected a few days later.

And despite Tyler Lieberman or whoever creating a tag for this thread entitled "watch wbradley cry", I have empathy AND functioning tear ducts.